Peat works good for me on my dirt hole sets as well. I tend to overkill on dirt hole sets...poly under the pan then peat all inside the jaws and under the trap, then regular dirt over the top. It will survive up to 3” of rain in a 24hr period, it’s just the actual hole that looks like a water source, lol.

One big disadvantage of freeze proofing sets it the amount of TV time the skinning cuts into

Depending on your area is what you'll need for freeze proof traps, my area usually goes from not freezing to freezing with no inbetween, so dry dirt could work as it shouldn't freeze down but I also have wax dirt if I am needing to deal with freeze/unfreeze times

Just to be clear, I do NOT solely use my set for coyotes....I have hole sets, bank sets, flat sets, blind/trail, etc. Still, I find the set SO easy to make and so fast, I struggle to justify doing the other stuff......but old habits, well, you know!

I've had lots of responses from folks where, like Wade, they have NOT had success with it......too many variables for me to diagnose from afar......but usually its one of these things:

* Only tried a handful due to lack of confidence in set or making it
* Only tried a handful due to dry weather and NOT needed
* Too much grass over trap impeding trap action especially after lots of rain, freezing, snow, etc.
* Pipe sticking out like a sore thumb vs. buried in grass tuft or whatever

Once we start going through those items, usually one or more applies......

It's not a Silver Bullet.....it's not the secret to big catches......it's simply another tool in your toolbox......

In the end, I'd LOVE to just dig a dirt hole and put a trap in front of it....but our water table combined with rain and snow in the hundreds of inches a year means those holes will be flooded at some point......so, I find real value in getting my stink ABOVE ground and out of that water.......

If you live on a mountain, you probably don't need flood insurance like you would if you lived in a river plain! If you trap where it's dry, you probably don't see the need for pipes!

MZ

Dig a regular trap bed cover your trap like normal with peat or dirt and stick In a pipe or something in front of your trap to hold your bait/lure and get on down the road.

Wade most of the country I trap do not have a real covering other than dirt or snow but I catch 4or5 a year with a real pipe set.
I have modified the set to fit my situation by taking a white pvc pipe and treating like bone set. I do still use bones early in the year but as the ground freezes I go to the white pipe because I put a pilot hole in and pound in pipe put bait or lure in it and go.
I also take pipe take vet wrap sheep wool around it pound to inch out of the ground that also works with your various stink on it.
But no coon here just deer elk antelope porkies skunks fox and other rather not deal with stuff.

Mark,
No offense but I followed your writings to a tee. No BS dog less traps. Kendall’s precut screen. Pipe not visible into a sod clump. Covered with yard clippings just enough the screen was still visible. The actual conduit not white pipe. When my out of state friend got here we got 8 inches of snow followed by drifts that were in places 4-5 feet deep and it was followed by 2 inches of rain 3 days in. Was the perfect weather to test the pipes. We have weather like that often enough I was hoping it would work. It just didn’t for me and I should have specified that you have written before you prefer dirtholes if the weather would allow it I’ve seen you mention that before as well.

My question still stands has anyone besides Mark caught coyotes in numbers over 100 a year using this method? With all the extra steps and materials I’ve found myself just finding a way to make a hole in the ground and running peat. I’ve given them a solid go enough to say I just cannot get any number of coyotes here to work them enough to take the extra time to dry out grass in any sizes, prepare pipes, carry screen, and haul this extra stuff around. I hate flat sets with a passion but if I’m worried I’ll have dirtholes with water they would be the next option.

I carry a pair of kitchen shears ( and screen), if I want to cover with grass, I cut it at the site. I have just pulled it and broke it up, or sifted it too.

Pipe Dream - If its snowing it works about anywhere for me. No snow and you aren't trapping grass sod it won't work that great. You can't be in a dirt pasture or sand hills and expect to cover that with grass clippings and to have it work. I trap Nebraska and in hay fields or field edges that are sod-ish it works great for me. Corn fields I use chopped corn stalk. I do use The Mafia set more then anything. It's my jam!

Oh man, none taken.....

We've all been around long enough to see that not everything applies everywhere. How many times have you heard where someone says a tried and true and venerable lure or bait doesn't get a guy the results it does for another guy......

I think if I ran ONLY pipes, my truck would have LESS stuff in it than when I run conventionally and use multiple approaches. No auger, drill, extra batteries. No peat or dry dirt or waxed dirt.
One 20-lb onion sack gets me 20-30 sets......and weighs what, a pound or two?

Yes, I DO need the pipes, but I reuse them annually so while I do add a few every year, my inventory should last forever, and they were all largely free.

On your question about 100-plus coyotes, I know guys that, like me, hit that number AND use the set. Again, I don't even use it 100% of the time, so I'd find it odd to hear of anyone else using it 100% of the time at that level. Further, MOST (not all) big number coyotes guys are NOT in the Northeast, Upper Midwest, snow belt areas AND/OR they can use snares to get their numbers.

Broad-brush stroke but very true. 100 coyotes is a bar that many people try to hit. Come to the Northeast and I am somewhat of a Unicorn with my numbers.....but if I go to the lower Midwest or further, I'd barely be noticed with 100 compared to other guys.

The preference on dirt holes if I can just gets down to one thing: visually appealing.......and that's a big plus.

We don't use Pipe Dreams per se in Kansas.........200-300-400-plus coyotes fall to our hole sets there annually whether I am there or just my partner alone. Still, pipes saved our butts a couple times in sand blows where we can't make a hole set STAY a hole set OR one year when the ground was SO hard (concrete, I am telling you!) we could barely scratch our a bed, no holes could be dug, but we COULD drill a hole with a smaller bit and force a pipe into it.

I'd say, if I were to guess, that for every ONE guy that does not have some type of success with it, I have 10 that say they do. In other words, FAR more positive than negative. That said, perhaps there are people struggling with it that I do NOT hear from........still, I'd say that of those 10 people that DO have success, most of them are in rain and snow country. Are a percentage of those guys only getting a handful of coyotes a year in it? Yup.......and I am OK with it because even in the circle I run in, not every trapper has the time or resources to even attempt 100 coyotes.

I'd bet the lure makers sells a LOT more lure collectively to the small-timers ALL combined than the 1% percent guys getting 100-1000 coyotes a year who all have their preferences on lure.

Still, confidence makes the best lure, and a guy should use whatever type of set, lure, bait, trap, etc that gives him or her said confidence.

Zagman

Pipe dream is a great set. I may not hit 100 a year ( don't think anyone could with a short line and the population here) but I had awesome success with it last season. That was the first season I used it. In the area I trap it works well because I have more grassy areas than bare dirt and sand. This year I plan to run a longer line. I will miss a mix of holes and pipes. I will try to photo journal and share results.

I don’t hit anywhere near the numbers mentioned, mainly because I don’t have those numbers, and I might be confusing some when I say I use the pipe dream set. The set, TO ME, isn’t so much the pipe, but the actual bedding of the trap itself. Blind sets, scent post sets, and even in some cases the dirt hole sets are bedded how I understand the Pipe Dream set. If it’s about the pipe, then I could use it anywhere. A dirt hole with a longer pipe shoved down in it would even keep bait working if the actual hole gets filled with water. I could use a long pipe as a scent post as well.

Zagger wrote: "Are a percentage of those guys only getting a handful of coyotes a year in it? Yup.......and I am OK with it because even in the circle I run in, not every trapper has the time or resources to even attempt 100 coyotes. "

Here is a guy that is in deed in at the top the game. Yet his ego is in check and he does not judge others by their catches or the time they can devote to the line. Wish more folks had his attitude.
I have known a number of incredibly talented trappers that never put up huge numbers.
And no, I don't owe Zagger any money.

I have been using peat moss since 1980. It is pretty hard to beat. Buckwheat hulls in the North woods blend right in. If it is possible (will blend with the environment) I use cut grass or cut hay. It is fast, fast fast. And no, I do not take a 100 coyotes a years, so take these thoughts for what it cost you.

Mac

For sure Mark,
I've had some baits/lures that have worked wonders for me and give them to someone even within the same 50 miles of me and they can't catch a cold on it. I'd agree that the small guys all combined have carried the lure/bait industry (I'm one of them) and I also think times might get interesting with some of those "small guys" getting out of trapping due to the poor fur prices. Confidence and efficiency I guess is what it all boils down to. I wasn't really asking the question to poke at the process you've come up with I was honestly just more curious if anyone else had used it at the level you had.

I've used a very similar bedding method to your pipe dream set for 1.5's in coon trails for a number of years (whenever Dustin Drews spoke about it on here no clue when). I found that I was wasting time bedding in dirt or peat moss when the coons would trample over my blind sets on those trails just barely covered with grass. Interestingly I always pick up coyotes in those sets (not even trying to) every year. So i have no doubt your methods work and will catch coyotes. I was just curious if anyone else had done it on a large scale. With fur prices the way they are what is there left to lose (I'm going to have to pay to trap this year as are a majority of the people trapping). The more I consider it I'm probably just going to stick to boring old peat moss. The good thing with low fur prices is I have an unimaginable amount of land at my disposal and more time then I've had in the previous few years so it might be the year to let it rip.

Yup, the "small" guys, IMO, are the backbone of the industry.......

Ask any lure or bait or supply guys why they attend so many conventions annually.......the 1%-ers might not even attend and/or buy their supplies in bulk and probably don't move the needle on convention sales......again, IMO.

Mac mentioned ego.......man, what double-edged sword one's EGO is......

In the end, most big numbers guys I know, in my mind, have an ego......and if I can consider myself a "big numbers" guy for this conversation, I certainly am guilty as charged!

That ego drives one to be better, to do better, than anyone else around us.......and that means more preparation, more work, leaving nothing to chance. In the end, the EGO, while generally holding a negative view from others, pushes guys to hit the big numbers. Yes, you have to have the numbers to start with, but ego takes guys from low-population states to places where large catches CAN be made.....not solely due to ego, but its one of those factors.....

So, back to the pipe......frankly, I'd say MOST big-number guys I know already have an approach or system.....and yes, that often means a certain trap or set or bait or lure as well that are viewed as "go-to's".......set in their ways, if you will...................

My sense is very few 1%-ers, when first hearing about the set, applied it to their programs, let alone even tried it one time. Why would they?

That said, I have examples of SEVERAL very good canid trappers......guys getting 100-300 canines a year (yes, perhaps numbers of fox in that mix) that NEVER tried the set at first......I mean some of these guys are some of my best buds! They didn't need it or feel compelled to try it in their program.....

Then, the rains came!

A couple years ago, states like PA had fall rains at unprecedented levels........like New York levels even! LOL

Out of NEED, some of those guys finally went to the hardware, and cut some pipe.

The comments I got from those guys largely were in this category: "the pipes saved my season"

What happened? They just never had the same weather I've been battling for 30-plus years to justify trying the set and ALL OF THE ATTRIBUTES that were developed to fight the weather.

Now, many of those guys will admit that the set is part of their annual approach........NEED met RESULTS which ended in CONFIDENCE.......and they finally saw what I've seen and the WHY to the Pipe Dream set.............

EGO kept them from trying the set....but then their ego suffered when their catch did as well, and EGO to perform brought them to a crossroads where they HAD to try a new approach.

It's analogous to us old guys finally caving into the fact that perhaps we need to to start taking "performance enhancing" prescriptions! LOL

MZ

I first started using the pipe dream set here in NNY. I sincerely believe the best part of it is the bedding. Never realized it was the Celesis (sp) of yote trapping. lol.
One additional point in regard to this thing called EGO. I suspect there are plenty of trappers who harvest 100’s of canines per year and we never hear from them. “What da man don’t hear da man don’t know”

Good point! It would be naive to think others AREN'T hitting those numbers......even arrogant!

We are mere mortals....if one man can do it, ANY man can do it!

Still.....trapping is a small community, people have to buy supplies, sell fur, etc. While I am sure there are some low-profile guys out there that NO ONE knows about, I just don't think they are that numerous.......how can they be if they are in the top one-percent of all trappers, and there ain't many of us! LOL At minimum, their jealous competition would be pointing them out!

Yes, I hear about these guys that NO ONE knows about, but since NO ONE knows about them, its hard to factor them into an argument with all of the, well, unknowns.....

Almost like arguing about the existence of Big Foot or mountain lions in NJ.............

"Show me a carcass!"

MZ

Been some interesting insights on this thread

Mark i like the way you put the ego post. Confidence ad ego are an interesting driver to successful folks. some handle themselves well and use themselves as fuel and others use it to perch themselves apart from others. There is a difference. Anyways. On to frost proof trapping lol. When the pipe dream came out years ago I was trapping in Ohio for predators for the first time specifically. I thought it would solve all of my problems. Turns out it doesnt cure the fact i wasnt a good trapper lol. I did get learn to eliminate bedding issues and freeze thaw issues in grasslands. It worked well there i just wasnt a good predator trapper. Moving on years later now i live in wyoming on th ehigh plains and the full on piep set is pretty hard to recreate here. I do however have alot of success with wax dirt and or sand. With the environment basically dirt or sand in a lot of locations i dont even need to blend besides just to get color matching a little bit. PEAT moss did not work here at all for me. My sets will snap off weeks after being set no issue if wax dirt is implemented properly.

You still have to do your work. The reason i didnt catch a lot with the pipe dream set in ohio wasnt the set it was me. Cutting corners not setting on sign but in a convenient spot and not understanding the pattern of the animals. Wax dirt is the same way. It owrks great but you have to think freeze for everything. Make sure you get a good layer of wax dirt under the trap so it doesnt freeze down and then bed it tight and pan cover and blend the set proplery still. The other thing a lot of guys dont talk wbout with wax dirt is in a freeze thaw setting you need to think about where the water is going to go. freeze proof sets dont work with water puddled on top of it frozen solid. Consider slope and other things. I have had water pour of a set to only get to the corner and pour in on my trap and freeze it solid ice with no dirt in it because the wax dirt is water repellent lol. That was embarrasing to me to see lol.

Hey speaking on the 1 % er's nobody knows anybody know or heard of Pud Long
1000 coyotes out of a model T in the 1940s maybe 50s
Could not resist lol