Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine
[Re: Cragar]
#6960677
08/11/20 02:01 AM
08/11/20 02:01 AM
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 9,047 Indiana
Providence Farm
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 9,047
Indiana
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I didnt say anything about the "greater" good. I said the public go9od as held in public trust for the people. If we as hunters, trappers, etc. dont support the best wildlife conservation system on Earth to ensure we maintain sustainable populations of wildlife then who will? This has nothing to do with socialism.
I could care less about your cows. Swamp Wolf , I doubt many would chastise you for enforcing game laws. It's a good thing , game laws preserves game which we all want , more game. I think most are concerned about overreach , not seeking out and capturing poachers. BIG difference , imo. This is it in a nut shell. I am a big supporter of conservation and never had a bad experience with a conservation officer but If someone breaks a game law to feed their kids I care less about it. Now when someone shoots a good buck legally cuts off the rack and leaves the rest to rot in a ditch it makes my quite angry. Yet one is legal yet morally wrong the other illegal yet not right but not wrong either. I shoot a opossum a few weeks back that was eating my cantaloupe in the garden. By law I should have reported it to the state within 24 hrs. I just tossed it out and didn't call. Same with the last several problem coons. Guess I'm a criminal. The cows were just pointing out the State claims ownership of the deer but not the damages caused by them. Whether that's vehicle collision or crop damage. I bet you would darn sure care about my black cow when it's in the road in front of you at night when your driving 60mph. Infact you could sue me if you lived. Yet the state is not responsible for their deer I have hit or the one my wifes aunt hit on her motorcycle. She died. Double standards.
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Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine
[Re: warrior]
#6960679
08/11/20 02:17 AM
08/11/20 02:17 AM
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,324 AK
FairbanksLS
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 4,324
AK
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Somehow they managed to enforce game laws prior to game cameras. No need to violate any private property owners expectation of privacy. A hand thrower and a clay pigeon should take care of the problem. Let them prove it was intentional.
formerly posting as white dog
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Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine
[Re: warrior]
#6960680
08/11/20 02:39 AM
08/11/20 02:39 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,963 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,963
williamsburg ks
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The only reason anyone in government is interested in wildlife is money.
Wardens may (at least most of them) believe in what they are doing to preserve the natural world. Politicians see only dollars. Politicians spend more time trying to expand their authority and power than they do anything else, with the possible exception of getting more money from constituents.
Judges want to make politicians happy. If you want a judicial appointment you need to make sure the person doing the appointing is happy with your politics/decisions
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine
[Re: warrior]
#6960683
08/11/20 04:09 AM
08/11/20 04:09 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,787 Northern lower Michigan
Feedinggrounds
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,787
Northern lower Michigan
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I'm not afraid of men of character like Swamp Wolf exercising the authority to surveil.
However the likes of Comey, Obama, et al scares the living hades out of me.
Like was said most states have to much land and to few wardens for me to worry about it. But again there's always.....
I also fully understand the why wardens have free access BUT those laws and the severe taboo placed on "poaching" were enacted in a time of zealous over protection of wildlife with the goal of restoring lost populations of wildlife. I think we can all agree that save for a handful of unique species american wildlife has rebounded to the point of over abundance in many areas.
Perchance it's time to rethink some things and reestablish some boundaries. I agree 200% go ahead and survey my land with video. I also think tight regulations and public reporting after the fact. Make non criminal non charged, camera placement public record after the fact. Id those agencies and officers involved. Could even require landowner access to pictures and video. Like a cops body cam footage. The officers and agencies have nothing to hide, right???
you're only allowed so many sunrises... I aim to see every one of them!
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Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine
[Re: Swamp Wolf]
#6960684
08/11/20 04:17 AM
08/11/20 04:17 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,787 Northern lower Michigan
Feedinggrounds
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,787
Northern lower Michigan
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I didnt say anything about the "greater" good. I said the public good as held in public trust for the people. If we as hunters, trappers, etc. dont support the best wildlife conservation system on Earth to ensure we maintain sustainable populations of wildlife then who will? This has nothing to do with socialism.
I could care less about your cows. Careful the slippery slope you tread, it may be ok and legal per say now. All that is really needed to stop this practice is, a aware public and angry bunch of voters. A politician will do, say, or change stance on any topic at all, when it comes down to keeping their job.
you're only allowed so many sunrises... I aim to see every one of them!
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Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine
[Re: Feedinggrounds]
#6960690
08/11/20 04:55 AM
08/11/20 04:55 AM
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 9,047 Indiana
Providence Farm
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 9,047
Indiana
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I didnt say anything about the "greater" good. I said the public good as held in public trust for the people. If we as hunters, trappers, etc. dont support the best wildlife conservation system on Earth to ensure we maintain sustainable populations of wildlife then who will? This has nothing to do with socialism.
I could care less about your cows. Careful the slippery slope you tread, it may be ok and legal per say now. All that is really needed to stop this practice is, a aware public and angry bunch of voters. A politician will do, say, or change stance on any topic at all, when it comes down to keeping their job. When have we ever seen a politician throw law enforcement under the bus?
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Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine
[Re: warrior]
#6960692
08/11/20 05:16 AM
08/11/20 05:16 AM
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Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,787 Northern lower Michigan
Feedinggrounds
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,787
Northern lower Michigan
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Providence Farm, I don't call it throwing law enforcement under a bus....What bus? More like switching on a light in a dimly lit or dark area...What do I have to hide?? What does law enforcement have to hide?? If I, or Law enforcement have nothing to hide, what is the problem? No bus to throw anyone under.
you're only allowed so many sunrises... I aim to see every one of them!
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Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine
[Re: warrior]
#6960733
08/11/20 07:05 AM
08/11/20 07:05 AM
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Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,497 Southern NJ
maintenanceguy
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,497
Southern NJ
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What's more egregious?
1) Killing a deer out of season 2)The government violating individual property rights?
-Ryan
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Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine
[Re: Feedinggrounds]
#6960741
08/11/20 07:15 AM
08/11/20 07:15 AM
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 9,047 Indiana
Providence Farm
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 9,047
Indiana
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Providence Farm, I don't call it throwing law enforcement under a bus....What bus? More like switching on a light in a dimly lit or dark area...What do I have to hide?? What does law enforcement have to hide?? If I, or Law enforcement have nothing to hide, what is the problem? No bus to throw anyone under. I was referring to current events. Democrats wanting to defund the police, prosecute them, and not allow them to do their job. The guy in the cop shooting thread wasn't doing anything wrong and had nothing to hide. You can clearly see how well that worked out for him.
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Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine
[Re: warrior]
#6960743
08/11/20 07:21 AM
08/11/20 07:21 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,963 williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,963
williamsburg ks
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Wonder what crime you would be committing if you zip tied their camera to a coyote and turned it loose? Wonder if they could find it before the gps tracker battery goes dead?
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine
[Re: warrior]
#6960744
08/11/20 07:26 AM
08/11/20 07:26 AM
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Mark June
Unregistered
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Mark June
Unregistered
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I would imagine that Boss Man is logging all the key strokes from all the folks on this site.
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Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine
[Re: maintenanceguy]
#6960751
08/11/20 07:35 AM
08/11/20 07:35 AM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,102 midland, michigan
midlander
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,102
midland, michigan
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What's more egregious?
1) Killing a deer out of season 2)The government violating individual property rights?
What property rights? You dont even own your land outright as someone pointed out in a thread some months back. If you dont beleive , just stop paying your rental fees (taxes) and see how long your name stays on the property
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Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine
[Re: maintenanceguy]
#6960761
08/11/20 07:56 AM
08/11/20 07:56 AM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,333 Hancock Co., Indiana
Kart29
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,333
Hancock Co., Indiana
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What's more egregious?
1) Killing a deer out of season 2)The government violating individual property rights?
Aren't they one and the same? Only difference I see is who is doing the violating. Something tells me the two characters in this story are a couple of redneck flea bags with a history of problems with the law - a couple of dumb, toothless hilljacks that think just because they own 136 acres they can do whatever they want with the wildlife on it. I suspect there was ample evidence to justify surveillance of these poachers. And if they were doing something wrong, I hope they get nailed to the wall for it. Of course, I could also be wrong about them.
What from Christ that soul can sever, Bound by everlasting bands? None shall take thee From the Strength of Israel's hands.
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Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine
[Re: Kart29]
#6960764
08/11/20 07:58 AM
08/11/20 07:58 AM
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Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,102 midland, michigan
midlander
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 1,102
midland, michigan
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What's more egregious?
1) Killing a deer out of season 2)The government violating individual property rights?
Aren't they one and the same? Only difference I see is who is doing the violating. Something tells me the two characters in this story are a couple of redneck flea bags with a history of problems with the law - a couple of dumb, toothless hilljacks that think just because they own 136 acres they can do whatever they want with the wildlife on it. I suspect there was ample evidence to justify surveillance of these poachers. And if they were doing something wrong, I hope they get nailed to the wall for it. ^^^^x2
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Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine
[Re: Kart29]
#6960837
08/11/20 08:55 AM
08/11/20 08:55 AM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 17,493 Wheaton Ks
lee steinmeyer
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 17,493
Wheaton Ks
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What's more egregious?
1) Killing a deer out of season 2)The government violating individual property rights?
Aren't they one and the same? Only difference I see is who is doing the violating. Something tells me the two characters in this story are a couple of redneck flea bags with a history of problems with the law - a couple of dumb, toothless hilljacks that think just because they own 136 acres they can do whatever they want with the wildlife on it. I suspect there was ample evidence to justify surveillance of these poachers. And if they were doing something wrong, I hope they get nailed to the wall for it. Of course, I could also be wrong about them. It doesn't sound like you read the article at all, Kart. I know it's a long read, but worth the effort, IMHO.
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Re: Are we being spied on? Open Fields Doctrine
[Re: warrior]
#6960901
08/11/20 09:55 AM
08/11/20 09:55 AM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,640 South Ga - Almost Florida
Swamp Wolf
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 12,640
South Ga - Almost Florida
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I read the article....one had been charged with baiting doves and the other's son had been charged with same thing. The article was written from the landowner's viewpoint so there may be more.
Now illegal dove hunting may not be a big issue with many but if you're a dove hunter and your place is near these guys would you want them to practice more ethical and legal ways of dove hunting? Maybe so its fair to all...so to speak.
TWRA or USFWS was likley trying to determine who does the baiting. Cause if they wanted to get them again for hunting doves over bait then just wait nearby until the shooting starts and walk in to property and handle business.
Use of cameras by GWs is not random.
Last edited by Swamp Wolf; 08/11/20 09:56 AM. Reason: More info
Thank God For Your Blessings! Never Half-Arse Anything!
Resource Protection Service
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