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Electrical help again please #6963335
08/13/20 09:16 PM
08/13/20 09:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 30,543
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline OP

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline OP

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 30,543
McGrath, AK
I asked this question a few months back and thought I understood the answer.

Let's try again.

I have a single pole switch with a pilot light.

The switch has two brass contacts on one side and 1 brass and one silver contact on the other.

From the power source I have black, white, bare copper.


All connections are in a junction box. From the switch I have 1 white, 2 blacks, 1 copper

All bares are twisted together in the j-box

All whites connected and one hot black to the switch. The other two blacks are connected to the cable going to the outlet in another building.


The problem is that the pilot light is on at all times regardless of the position of the switch.

Help !!


Mean As Nails
Re: Electrical help again please [Re: white17] #6963351
08/13/20 09:31 PM
08/13/20 09:31 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,971
Fingerlakes New York
robert.d12 Offline
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robert.d12  Offline
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Posts: 1,971
Fingerlakes New York
Got a pic of how the switch is wired? I think you’ve got to break away the tab between the two brass screws that are on the same side. Might not though, depending on the brand of switch. Do you know what brand it is?


The beauty of the second amendment is it wont be needed until they try to take it. -Thomas Jefferson
Re: Electrical help again please [Re: white17] #6963354
08/13/20 09:33 PM
08/13/20 09:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,971
Fingerlakes New York
robert.d12 Offline
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robert.d12  Offline
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Fingerlakes New York
Should be like this depending on the brand

7F43FF96-262D-4A7C-B54B-FEC59620BCBB.jpeg

The beauty of the second amendment is it wont be needed until they try to take it. -Thomas Jefferson
Re: Electrical help again please [Re: white17] #6963358
08/13/20 09:38 PM
08/13/20 09:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 30,543
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline OP

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline OP

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McGrath, AK
It's a Pass & Seymour.

I wondered about that tab because there seems to always be continuity between those two terminals and I suspect that tab is the problem


Mean As Nails
Re: Electrical help again please [Re: white17] #6963363
08/13/20 09:48 PM
08/13/20 09:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,081
SWMo.
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tjm Offline
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tjm  Offline
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SWMo.
Originally Posted by white17
It's a Pass & Seymour.

I wondered about that tab because there seems to always be continuity between those two terminals and I suspect that tab is the problem

Do both those screws have wires on them going to the load box?

Re: Electrical help again please [Re: white17] #6963364
08/13/20 09:48 PM
08/13/20 09:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 30,543
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline OP

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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Posts: 30,543
McGrath, AK
yes


Mean As Nails
Re: Electrical help again please [Re: white17] #6963371
08/13/20 09:56 PM
08/13/20 09:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2019
Posts: 697
Southern NJ
maintenanceguy Offline
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maintenanceguy  Offline
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Posts: 697
Southern NJ
Don't break the tab. That's the electrical connection to one side of the pilot light. Can you sketch the connections?


-Ryan
Re: Electrical help again please [Re: white17] #6963376
08/13/20 09:58 PM
08/13/20 09:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 30,543
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline OP

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline OP

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McGrath, AK
I'll have to set up my drafting table.It will take a while laugh


Mean As Nails
Re: Electrical help again please [Re: white17] #6963384
08/13/20 10:08 PM
08/13/20 10:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 9,081
SWMo.
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tjm Offline
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SWMo.
Originally Posted by white17
yes

I thought that's what you had said. Look at the schematic posted above, the load is attached to the other side. I'm not a real electrician that knows the switches by brand but, if you take that switch out of the circuit (I'd take out of the box and work on a table) and check continuity from each screw to all other screws in both switch positions you can draw yourself a picture of how the juice flows in each position and from that determine how you want the wires connected.
The two tabbed screws are one single connection point as it is, in effect jumpering the wires connected to them.
(The USN training was ~50 years ago and I have to think things through nowadays.)

Re: Electrical help again please [Re: white17] #6963386
08/13/20 10:14 PM
08/13/20 10:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 30,543
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline OP

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
white17  Offline OP

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McGrath, AK
Here is the exact switch .

I think the problem is in the neutrals. I have the neutral from the source connected to the switch. and to the neutral coming from the outlet


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqgIEVVkq2k


Mean As Nails
Re: Electrical help again please [Re: white17] #6963387
08/13/20 10:14 PM
08/13/20 10:14 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,971
Fingerlakes New York
robert.d12 Offline
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Fingerlakes New York
I think the black you are using as a feed needs to be on the side with two brass screws. Is it?


The beauty of the second amendment is it wont be needed until they try to take it. -Thomas Jefferson
Re: Electrical help again please [Re: white17] #6963388
08/13/20 10:15 PM
08/13/20 10:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,971
Fingerlakes New York
robert.d12 Offline
trapper
robert.d12  Offline
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Fingerlakes New York
The neutrals should all be tied together and to the switch


The beauty of the second amendment is it wont be needed until they try to take it. -Thomas Jefferson
Re: Electrical help again please [Re: tjm] #6963389
08/13/20 10:15 PM
08/13/20 10:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 30,543
McGrath, AK
W
white17 Offline OP

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McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by tjm
Originally Posted by white17
yes

I thought that's what you had said. Look at the schematic posted above, the load is attached to the other side. I'm not a real electrician that knows the switches by brand but, if you take that switch out of the circuit (I'd take out of the box and work on a table) and check continuity from each screw to all other screws in both switch positions you can draw yourself a picture of how the juice flows in each position and from that determine how you want the wires connected.
The two tabbed screws are one single connection point as it is, in effect jumpering the wires connected to them.
(The USN training was ~50 years ago and I have to think things through nowadays.)



Yep I did exactly that. It's a brand new switch and I went over it with the ohm meter before I started.


Mean As Nails
Re: Electrical help again please [Re: white17] #6963400
08/13/20 10:25 PM
08/13/20 10:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2015
Posts: 1,971
Fingerlakes New York
robert.d12 Offline
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I would switch the blacks to the opposite sides. The pilot light is hooked to the brass screw on one side or the other. If you feed that screw with constant power, the light won’t go out like you want it to.


The beauty of the second amendment is it wont be needed until they try to take it. -Thomas Jefferson
Re: Electrical help again please [Re: white17] #6963404
08/13/20 10:29 PM
08/13/20 10:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 30,543
McGrath, AK
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white17 Offline OP

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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McGrath, AK
I'll give that a shot in the morning. It's the only possible combination I haven't tried !

Thanks guys !


Mean As Nails
Re: Electrical help again please [Re: white17] #6963409
08/13/20 10:36 PM
08/13/20 10:36 PM
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tjm Offline
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SWMo.
I think this, the light is between the neutral screw and the tabbed screws and that the black/hot wire from the source needs to be on single yellow screw so that when the switch is on the voltage is applied back from the load side through the light, check the voltage of all your wires and see if one of the three is hot or if two are hot

Hot wire to yellow screw, whites jumpered together and to white screw; load coming off the tabbed yellow screw, with the tab feeding the light.

edited as I had thought this through a bit more and realized I had it wrong.

Last edited by tjm; 08/13/20 11:11 PM.
Re: Electrical help again please [Re: white17] #6963732
08/14/20 11:00 AM
08/14/20 11:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,461
Fairbanks, Alaska
Pete in Frbks Offline
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Pete in Frbks  Offline
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Posts: 3,461
Fairbanks, Alaska
When you start switching wires, please (for the sake of all of us....) have Barb ready to video the results when you throw the power switch back on.....

Pete

Re: Electrical help again please [Re: white17] #6963757
08/14/20 11:34 AM
08/14/20 11:34 AM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 675
middle tennessee
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Tommie Offline
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middle tennessee
What are you trying to do with the switch ? Are you Using it as a Pilot light in the dark or to show you that you left the switch on .

Re: Electrical help again please [Re: white17] #6963760
08/14/20 11:39 AM
08/14/20 11:39 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,306
Wisconsin
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The Beav Offline
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The Beav  Offline
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Wisconsin
Just turn off the gas and the pilot light will go out. Your way over thinking this thing. LOL

Last edited by The Beav; 08/14/20 11:39 AM.

The forum Know It All according to Muskrat
Re: Electrical help again please [Re: white17] #6963836
08/14/20 01:18 PM
08/14/20 01:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 27,956
james bay frontierOnt.
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Boco Offline
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james bay frontierOnt.
Call an electrician before you burn down the house.

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