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school me on ar 15's #6973079
08/24/20 10:49 PM
08/24/20 10:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 582
Indiana
B
bluegrassman Offline OP
trapper
bluegrassman  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 582
Indiana
i've never really had any desire to own an ar 15 before as i've always liked older guns and wooden stocks ect. always thought they were ugly and never saw a need for one. now with everything that's going on with the riots and such something inside me is telling me i should look into getting one before the election.

so what are some of the better brands and what are some of the ones to stay away from?

what are the best calibers?

whats the average prices on the better ones?

what are some of the better options on them?

what are some of the best accessories?

any advise on where to look and what to look for? ect?


Anyone that owns a gun and votes democrat deserves to have there gun taken, cause they truly are too stupid to own a gun.
Re: school me on ar 15's [Re: bluegrassman] #6973083
08/24/20 10:57 PM
08/24/20 10:57 PM
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,630
Green Bay, Wisconsin
tlguy Offline
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tlguy  Offline
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Joined: May 2013
Posts: 2,630
Green Bay, Wisconsin
Unfortunately, you're about 6-12 months late to the game. Right now, the best AR is the one in stock.

Re: school me on ar 15's [Re: bluegrassman] #6973087
08/24/20 11:27 PM
08/24/20 11:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 21,006
nm
A
adam m Offline
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adam m  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 21,006
nm
If you can't find one in stock build it.

Re: school me on ar 15's [Re: bluegrassman] #6973088
08/24/20 11:42 PM
08/24/20 11:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 234
Vassar Michigan
trapperEd Offline
trapper
trapperEd  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 234
Vassar Michigan

Parts are getting harder to find now.


Life member NTA
Re: school me on ar 15's [Re: bluegrassman] #6973089
08/24/20 11:51 PM
08/24/20 11:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,189
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,189
Green County Wisconsin
generally stick to the 223/5.56 that is what the gun was built around and it really does work quite well , normally very available and at a reasonable price.

unless you have a special use that would require a different caliber like you are a strait wall cartridge area and intend to hunt with a strait wall cartridge from the AR.

when you start getting away from 223/5.56 you start running into non standardized components not a big issue but something to realize.

an AR15 in 223/5.56 basically everything is made to "mil-Spec" this means a standardized set of blue prints the critical measurements of 2 components from different companies will be withing the allowances of the specification drawings.

Ruger , S&W , PSA , have fairly budget rifles , very functional

Windam , Daniel defense , SIG , Rock River , are a step up

there are a lot more manufacturers out there most all of them make a rifle that goes bang reliably and will hold 2 inch or better groups at 100 yards.


I prefer a free floated hand guard, this like a free floated hunting rifle the barrel does not have contact with the fore-arm/ Hand Guard as it it called on the AR rifles. this means your hand pressure isn't pushing on the barrel but back at the receiver and the barrel can move freely this improves accuracy.

accessories mount generally with the 1913 type rail , M-lok or Key-Mod most everything is now standardizing on M-lok

accessories to have , generally some sort of optic , a red dot or low power optic on carbine length rifles

gas systems there are different lenght gas systems I mostly go with Mid lenght.
pistol , carbine , mid lenght , rifle are the options
as the name suggests pistol is the shortest and is for very short barrels or non 223/5.56 rounds with less gas pressure
Carbine may be found on 10.5 ,11.5 13,5 , 14.5 and some 16 inch barrels this is the M4 carbine lenght used on the military M16 -M4 carbines with 14.5 inch barrels .
Rifle is found on some 18 inch but promarily on 20 inch barrels "rifle" barrels
Mid-Lenght is a compramise between rifle and carbine and is in the middle it provides reliable cycling with 16 and 18 inch barrels while not being overgassed flinging the brass with excess force that carbine can the military errors on the side of more gas is better to extract cases in dirty combat situations.

Mid length in a 16 inch barrel with a clean rifle is easier on the brass , less abrupt movement and generally can lead to a slightly smaller group size as the components of the rifle wait maybe a few thousands of a second longer to start into motion. the cycling feels smoother , many people may not even notice.

from a basic Mil spec parts kit the places to upgrade are most often in the trigger , the 5-6 pound military trigger

inthe same way you might make a bolt action rifle easier to shoot , glass bedding the action int he stock , free floating the barrel and havig the trigger worked to be smooth , with a lower pull weight and a crisp break with no over travel , these things apply to AR rifles as well.

this isn't a time of good prices or good avalability

what accessories
my preference is a good
-sling with easy to release mounts either QD (quick disconnect) or Para Clips these are locking clips
-an optic , although I have irons sights as well
- a Magpul or other grip that I find comfortable in my hand the original AR grip has a ridge that doesn't fit right in my hand and is a rather small grip for my xxl hands
- improved trigger like a ALG-ACT or a Larue tactical or PSA-EPT these are all basically hardened and or coated with a hardened material that makes them smoother and more crisp in the break
-depending on the use a light mounted very near the muzzle identifying the target is important.
- sometimes a muzzle brake (muzzle brakes make a very flat recoil cycle also reducing the already minimal recoil your sights hardly even move off the target when the rifle is fired)

if you asked last year this time 600-700 would buy you a nice basic complete rifle

today the world troubled and supply is low. here is a gun that was selling for 650ish last year https://palmettostatearmory.com/rug...ee-float-handguard-rifle-black-8529.html
still a good choice in first AR as a complete rifle but more expensive.

building may save you some money especially if you know someone who could help you and has the few tools you will want. I say want because I recently assembled one at he dining room table with about 4 punches a hammer , lube , painters tape , 7 dollar spanner wrench and an old deck of playing cards and a second set of hands it was sort of a hey I don't feel like getting out the vice and vice block , lets see what we could do for a minimalist tool build challenge the mind a bit.

this kit is 629 and you would need a stripped lower reciver the kit can shop to your door and you buy a stripper lower from a local shop as an "other" they have been 50-70 dollars Anderson is a decent name in lowers https://palmettostatearmory.com/psa...t-m-lok-moe-ept-rifle-kit-516446780.html

you probably noticed I mentioned barrel lengths shorter than 16 inches , if your overall length breach face to muzzle is not 16 inches it can't have a stock on that gun , unless the muzzle device on a 13.5 or 14.5 is pinned and tack welded or you file the paper work for an SBR short barrel rifle and pay the 200 dollar tax stamp.

pistol braces are not stocks but not a plain round buffer tube either. for a first a rifle might be a better option.

you may well have more questions now than when you asked.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: school me on ar 15's [Re: bluegrassman] #6973092
08/25/20 01:50 AM
08/25/20 01:50 AM
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,272
Amite county Mississippi
Wolfdog91 Offline
trapper
Wolfdog91  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 5,272
Amite county Mississippi
Really depends on what you want to do with it, and that's the beauty of the AR platform, it's basically like a Lego set where you can mix and match stuff to get what you want.

You can always just buy a Lower and switch between uppers.
I have polymer lower with a 5.56 upper and regular scope set up for general work and a 7.62x39 set up with my night vision all I gotta do is pop those two pins and also on the upper I want.


Trappermans Resident Black Guy
The Black Redneck! 22yrs
MS National Guardsmen
I Like Moddin Traps 'N Trapping Possums
Go Ordnance!!!!
Tman Archivist
Re: school me on ar 15's [Re: bluegrassman] #6973137
08/25/20 06:13 AM
08/25/20 06:13 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,675
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,675
Georgia
GREENCOUNTRYPETE, about covered it. I will say that I shared my father's predjudice against the M16 and 5.56 (he was among the first testers of the AR in the Mekong delta) and I carried an A1 in West Germany while the Bundeswehr carried G3s in 7.62. However, in the last fifty years all the bugs and product improvements combined with heavier better constructed bullets have made the AR/5.56 probably the most highly tuned combo on the planet. While I'm still and always will advocate bigger is better the modern 5.56 is battle tested and hits well above it's weight. For one new to the platform 5.56 is probably the best bet.
Also for one new to the platform I would advise digging up and committing to heart the ATF letters and rulings defining AR rifles, short barreled rifles (SBR), pistols and all other weapons (AOW). Thanks to the modular nature of the AR and the natural penchant of a free people to bend the rules our national gun laws have been shown to be utterly silly. Unfortunately these same laws still have teeth and the wrong combination of parts can earn a federal felony. My advice for the one who won't be taking full advantage of the mix and match nature is to buy pre-assembled and stick to it. If you choose to assemble your own then know the rules.
Next would be if you choose to take full advantage of the ability to swap uppers/calibers. Be advised almost all of the alternative cartridges are designed to function through the lower/magazine and as such will feed through the action. Most will not fully chamber and the gun will not fire out of battery. But there are some that will, most notably some loadings of 300blk, creating potentially disastrous results. If you choose to own multiple upper/cartridges combinations then develop a method of keeping things separated.

Re: school me on ar 15's [Re: bluegrassman] #6973229
08/25/20 07:45 AM
08/25/20 07:45 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,856
Hancock Co., Indiana
Kart29 Offline
trapper
Kart29  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,856
Hancock Co., Indiana
Originally Posted by bluegrassman
i've never really had any desire to own an ar 15 before as i've always liked older guns and wooden stocks ect. always thought they were ugly and never saw a need for one. now with everything that's going on with the riots and such something inside me is telling me i should look into getting one before the election.

so what are some of the better brands and what are some of the ones to stay away from?

what are the best calibers?

whats the average prices on the better ones?

what are some of the better options on them?

what are some of the best accessories?

any advise on where to look and what to look for? ect?



I felt exactly like you. I always hated the ugly, plastic looking space guns. Blued steel and walnut for me, please!

But then I saw nearly everyone shooting in the club's high-power rifle shooting matches were using AR style rifles. There was so much talk about them I decided I should probably get one just to see what all the rumpus was about. Once I got one, I really learned to like it. It really is super easy to shoot and maintain. It's just a fun, well balanced, easy handling, soft shooting rifle. I keep mine setup with iron signts because I don't hunt with mine and I like target shooting with an adjustable peep sight much better than using a telescopic sight like I use for hunting.

All the options and terminology of these AR guns is a bit overwhelming. I tried to figure it all out and eventually decided to just buy a complete rifle off of the shelf. I bought a Savage MSR - Patrol model and have been very happy with it. You might want to look into that. After I owned the rifle for a while, all of the terminology and lingo started to make more sense - bolt carrier, upper, trigger control group, gas tube, etc. I learned I'm pretty happy with the gun the way it is. I changed the rear sight and added a sling swivel attachment point. Someday I'd like to get a better trigger.

So, I think it would be good for you just to buy an entry level complete rifle and go shoot it around. You'll learn a lot about the rifles and once you know more you will be in a better position to decide if you want something different and just what that is. All the customization options make it too confusing to try to build a custom gun from scratch for your first one. I'm sure it can be done, but it seems like the hard way to learn and you'll probably end up finding out it's not configured exactly the way you really want, anyway.


What from Christ that soul can sever,
Bound by everlasting bands?
None shall take thee
From the Strength of Israel's hands.

Re: school me on ar 15's [Re: bluegrassman] #6973249
08/25/20 08:11 AM
08/25/20 08:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,675
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,675
Georgia
^^^^^
Good advice.
As a vet I often forget that most folks can't detail strip an AR by feel alone. Familiarity with the AR platform would be a prerequisite to building one. I can think of at least a dozen different ways to assemble parts combos that would result in either a gun not functioning or beating itself to pieces.

Re: school me on ar 15's [Re: bluegrassman] #6973272
08/25/20 08:46 AM
08/25/20 08:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,682
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERB🦝 Offline
trapper
SNIPERB🦝  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,682
Rodney,Ohio
First time I took the bolt carrier out of my AR I bout never got the thing back in.

Re: school me on ar 15's [Re: bluegrassman] #6973274
08/25/20 08:49 AM
08/25/20 08:49 AM
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,537
Peoria County Illinois
Larry Baer Offline
trapper
Larry Baer  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 1,537
Peoria County Illinois
I have a few ''clip on '' mounts for things like scopes and thermals. One thing I was taught is to always check my scope before a hunt. The way the AR clip on mounts work is you set your scope or sight on top of the rail and move a lever to tighten it onto the rail. All of mine are Swan and I can take my scope off and put it back on and it is still at zero. I bought a Hogster R thermal. It's the same way. The best red dot i have is an Eotec 588 - it has a steel shroud and will work if the glass is busted.
I use mine for coyotes and defense. It hoots great. It gives me a 3/8'' group at 100 yards with 50 gr. Nosler BT bullets. I got a thinner barrel from Midway in 5r refiling and it shoots great. It was easy to install. I had a heavy varmint bull barrel before and it weighed a ton by the end of the night. If you build one you will have to match the barrel and the gas tube to the recoil spring and then you may need to tweak it to make it work the way you want. It's not hard to do but you just have to make sure you use the right parts for what you want to do.
I like Daniels and Vltor parts but there are lots of good ones. This is light and easy to carry. I painted it - it was easy. The sight on it is a Lucid sight. It's okay but the batteries don't last very long.

Get some 10 and 5 round mags if you want to hunt with it. The 30 round mags are awkward.


[Linked Image]

Last edited by Larry Baer; 08/25/20 08:49 AM.

Just passin through
Re: school me on ar 15's [Re: Larry Baer] #6973314
08/25/20 09:48 AM
08/25/20 09:48 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,616
Wy
Cattrax Offline
trapper
Cattrax  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 9,616
Wy
You want to learn about AR's, build your own from scratch, top to bottom, that way you will know how to tear it down and clean it, and fix any problems that may arise, and I will say there are some parts you need to keep on hand incase, like firing pen, they do break.


"The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not."
-- Thomas Jefferson




Re: school me on ar 15's [Re: bluegrassman] #6973318
08/25/20 09:55 AM
08/25/20 09:55 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,381
ohio
T
tomahawker Offline
trapper
tomahawker  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 2,381
ohio
Get a chopper! A classic AK/47 combines wood furniture with Rambo aesthetics. But...they be hard to come by as well.

Re: school me on ar 15's [Re: bluegrassman] #6973321
08/25/20 10:10 AM
08/25/20 10:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,189
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,189
Green County Wisconsin
when you start playing AK you need to start becoming a world historian.

you know how I said you in Mil Spec AR all the parts are made to the same critical sizes and fit together

in AK rifles , you start asking questions like stamped ,slant cut or strait cut milled , year , country of origin ,original model

the materials are cheap and the fixtures needed to assemble them expensive.


everything you need to work on an AR fits in a tool bag

when you start working on assembling AK s you need the hydraulic press and rivet fixtures.

it is a major philosophy difference in USSR labor cheap everyone need work , materials limited the labor that goes into an AK is greater but the parts less
you didn't want the USSR solder fully disassembling their rifle. field strip and clean only
each country manufacturer their own with their own variations a Romanian AK not the same as a Yugo or Czech some don't even share the same magazine although most do


in the US you had expensive labor for fitting and assembly and machining processes to make the rifle modular and parts to a given spec

one spec for all rifles vs every small country in a conglomerate making their own variation

in either case a finished working rifle in the hands of the user makes little difference until you need to fix or replace something


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: school me on ar 15's [Re: bluegrassman] #6973334
08/25/20 10:28 AM
08/25/20 10:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,675
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,675
Georgia
Never been a big fan of Soviet surplus but I will say that as an outsider looking in that the AK design is just now getting into the area of development the AR was at 30 years ago, in my opinion
Namely when private industry and/or competitive shooters take it up for improvement. Not that the Kalishnikov is an inherently flawed design as it is anything but. It met it's design goals immeasurably. Namely a cheap simple to manufacture service weapon that goes bang under almost every imaginable condition. It was never intended to stand shoulder to shoulder on the Creedmoor firing line firing for groups. But then again neither was the AR yet in the last thirty years it has come to dominate the firing line. Time will tell if the AK can do so as well.
Again, just my opinion, while it may eventually come close ot is at its roots cheap stamped metal designed to go bang.

Re: school me on ar 15's [Re: bluegrassman] #6973340
08/25/20 10:45 AM
08/25/20 10:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2018
Posts: 2,703
WI
Sprung & Rusty Offline
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Sprung & Rusty  Offline
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Posts: 2,703
WI
They're all decent. Some are better but for moderate shooting and light use, just get an entry level.

Re: school me on ar 15's [Re: bluegrassman] #6973342
08/25/20 10:47 AM
08/25/20 10:47 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,675
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,675
Georgia
If I were looking at a soviet design to upgrade, jmo, the simonov (SKS) probably has potential, but alas it's time has long passed.

Re: school me on ar 15's [Re: bluegrassman] #6973749
08/25/20 06:20 PM
08/25/20 06:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,189
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 7,189
Green County Wisconsin
competitive shooting and competitive markets drive firearms development like no other can.

you have smart people pushing themselves and the equipment to extremes only seen before in a few military units , they may run a course that has them shooting 5 to 500 yards they are willing to try things , have money to do it and if proof of concept holds it gets further refined.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: school me on ar 15's [Re: bluegrassman] #6973811
08/25/20 07:06 PM
08/25/20 07:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 582
Indiana
B
bluegrassman Offline OP
trapper
bluegrassman  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 582
Indiana
Thanks for all the information. Some of it seems like a whole other language. 😀


Anyone that owns a gun and votes democrat deserves to have there gun taken, cause they truly are too stupid to own a gun.
Re: school me on ar 15's [Re: bluegrassman] #6973812
08/25/20 07:07 PM
08/25/20 07:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 582
Indiana
B
bluegrassman Offline OP
trapper
bluegrassman  Offline OP
trapper
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 582
Indiana
Iím learning some though.


Anyone that owns a gun and votes democrat deserves to have there gun taken, cause they truly are too stupid to own a gun.
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