... Mark while I have you here in the post fight show.. I have a serious question. I was raised southern babtist ... but never really had anything speak to me .. I am of Anglo Saxon decent... which means that my ancestors had their own religions in their own lands removed from the god of the Semites and not exposed to Christ during his teachings... so the question is ... are they in helll?

now what am i sposed to do with all this popcorn??

Savell- Why would you care...? You never met your ancestors of multiple centuries before so it not like you really love them like you would immediate kin. You all might be amused about one another for a while and then have pretty much nothing in common and go your own ways. Some of my ancestors spoke German for at least x number of centuries. So what, I don't care to know that language or eat the foods they ate or do lots of other things of their cultures. They were then, and I'm now.

.... just seems a little exclusive is all ... borderline hypocritical lol

... I’m thinking Valhalla is more my speed anyway... from what I’ve read you get drunk, eat bbq and fight for eternity

So... basically every night is Saturday night in a small East Texas town ... I’d fit right in

Can I set the H-- aside because that is another doctrine, but the other Q is fairly straight forward.

The orthodox (traditional) Christian faith holds there was a proto-evangelium (prior to the Gospel of the 2nd Adam = Christ) in place from God, or how would Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, Judah, Hannah, and David be saved through faith? Christ hadn't been born yet. Moses, the prophet, hadn't even written the OT yet.

So how would people know?
The writer of Hebrews uses this these as he pens the Inspired text (Her 11:17) about Abraham and Issac, and how Abraham had "faith." Faith in what?
Same as all of us today. The minimum amount anyone needs to be saved;
Your faith that:
> God can take away your sins.
> God can forgive you
> This is accomplished through a Savior.

Paul writes of "Justification by faith" in Romans 4 and this is what he's writing about.

Even before Christ, the photo-evangelium was widely known by Jewish and pagan religions. Couldn't tell you if your ancestors said, "Yep, I believe."
We are a spiritual being at our core, so your ancestors would have wrestled with neighboring tribes, and the big picture Q's we still wonder about.
Hope they said yep.

Blessings,
Mark

I'm glad your wife got away without harm. My wife packs a pistol I hope she never needs to use it.

I hear ya.
My Mrs. says the Lord is plan A.
She carries plan B.
She says there are too many creeps now-a-days, and I really can't argue with my Mrs.
I just make real sure I whistle and knock stuff around, and cough a couple times, just for good measure, should I come home unexpectedly!
She won the shooting contest at church (men & ladies).

I had a pastor who I knew would take a bullet if it meant he could give the guy who shot him the gospel as he lay dying. Interestingly enough, he gave me a 9mm for self-defense.

One of those "Do you confess with your last breath?" sermons.

This is how I'm feeling now and I'm not sure if my feelings are right but it is how I feel.
I think the modern church uses the "turn the other cheek" as an excuse to do nothing. I personally don't think God is pleased that the modern church is unwilling to stand against evil. IMO this is why the U.S. is the way it is because of the unwillingness of the church to physically stand against evil when necessary. I think those generations before us, like the WW2 generation, had it right. Loving your enemy was the first resort and wrath was the final resort. I'm afraid the modern church would never resort to the last resort. So Gary this believer has got your back.
I will admit I struggle with this. I know and believe as Jesus said, " that we are to love our neighbor as our self " but I also know that Jesus himself used physical force to remove evil. I guess I really need prayers from my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ to come to terms with these things. It is a struggle that fills my thoughts often nowadays as I watch cities burn and innocents beaten/killed while the leaders of these communities sit idle and do nothing. I know God has a plan and I will just have to trust in that and I pray that I'll receive clarity in this matter.

J,
May I sincerely let you know that you have a bunch of "I" in this post and that's not wrong per se, because we all have our views and opinions, but recall Scripture helps us understand how we are to humble ourselves, and rely on God more than our own eyes.

Question; How many people does God need in His army to succeed?
Answer: Zero.

Remember, that many religious wars have been fought in the name of God, most with man's intentions (self-righteous), not God's, and it has not been fruitful for those people long term. Prime example = the Crusades

Remember also brother, the turn the other cheek is an analogy that is quite the opposite of cowardice. We are not God, so to say we should do what Jesus did in the Temple in and among the apostates, and pagans, is not a biblical application of that text.

PM me if you'd like a deeper dive into this.

Blessings,
Mark

Mark I know God has already won the victory. My struggle is when good men do nothing, evil prevails.(except in the end of course). Wish I could go to D.C. on the 26th because I know the power of prayer and that would be an awesome thing to be a part of in person. I will be participating here in AR so I'll be a part of it too. Praying is mightier than the sword and my hope is this nation will turn back to God so that evil does not prevail in this great nation.

How many of us pray for our enemies?

Certainly we aren’t assisting in building the Kingdom if we are killing nonbelievers and sending them to (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman)?

Our reward is not here so there is nothing physically here to fight for. Doing so is in conflict with believing God raised Jesus from the dead and so too is the promise to anyone who believes.

And many hundreds more on the " me too... " funding wagon

What about September 11, 2001, WW2, Korea,Vietnam, Revolutionary War, etc? Is there never a just cause for defense of the nation? Doesn't God have a plan and use the righteous to achieve that plan even when it causes the death of the unbeliever? This is a part of my struggle in knowing what is righteous and what is not. Hobbie by your post you've made before I'm guessing you sometimes struggle with this too.

Since I was about twelve.

What is His plan?

Is it simply to have a relationship with each of His children and their willingness to deny Him that has created what we have now?

Conflict not of the Spirit rarely softens a heart.

I don't believe God interferes with anything happening.

Dang reading that would make anyone depressed.

All good input, but all of us can pick our favorite verses, and then others pick their favorite verse, and they seem to be at odds sometimes, true? They are not. God Inspired all of it through the power of the Holy Spirit, so it is all in complete agreement. So the issue is that we aren't interpreting Scripture accurately, and the 3 biggest aids to accuracy are; context, context, and context = the story. Sadly, the American Church doesn't teach or preach much context = the story. They teach how to apply it.

Scripture in the canonical text we're so blessed to have, is a narrative, not about us, but about God. It's God's story, so that we may know His Characteristics. His. Not ours.
Regrettably, too many have plucked "sound bites" from Scripture, (self-righteous people), especially those verses they like and could "use" from God's logos, and they are in no way helpful. Do we think God Revealed to us a book about war plans, how to save our marriage, or fix broken things? No. Yet, we hear sermons on it all the time. Not bad sermons, just bad context.

Jesus came into a world of massive wars and hatred, to offer the absolute Truth, amongst religious zealots (Pharisees), pompous civic religious figures (Sadducees), and more. Sound familiar? Some mock those who call themselves followers of Christ, because of past actions of some who carried the Bible everywhere they went. Those types of "religious" folks are still with us, and always will be until Christ returns, because we are a broken race - so we need to render to Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's. Jesus meant our heart.

There's a ton of theology in all this, but simply: Read your Bible from cover to cover. While you do, throw out the "application." Toss out "Interpretation." Just focus on "Observation (read it like it's green eggs and ham). Front to back. Preachers in America for the last 150 years have bathed us with application, application, application, to the point we no longer know God's Character.

When you realize God's beauty, it'll set your gaze better, much better than a quad on coyotes on a frosty morn!

Start there I humbly suggest..

Blessings,
Mark