Ford F-150 ain’t no artificial truck son! Now we have another debate

Soon what about then a pack o wolves brings down a elk and eats on it for a day and a half while it's still alive? Which happens all the time. Or when a coyotes decides to go on a thrill kill spree (which by the way is a thing in most canines even dogs ) and kills 20-30 sheep or deer or elk and only eat some of one or two.
And 24 he is a stretch to say the least. That's basically saying if I set the trap at 2:30 p.m today then that animals must have been caught by 3:30pm that same day for it to be in the trap for any where near 24hr. Most anime are never in the trap for more than 5 hr honestly. And the agony part. There are studies that show (I think it's with the bmps ,Texas A.M and t. T turn bull and associated) showing that after the first 20 or so minutes heart rates reduce and the animal generally just kind calms down. Honestly when your really thing about some if the crap these animals espically preators go though (I don't know if you ever seen what two male fox or coyotes look like after a fight) sitting in the end of a chain with a numb foot is gonna be pretty low on the list. Not to mention you got guys like me who go out if their ways to try and modify these traps so they cause as little pain or suffering as possible. Heck I could sit her for at lest two hours and talk about how you can tune you jaw spacing spring strength chain length shock springs laminations and on and on so that the animals you catch won't even have a scratch on them.
There was a study done in either maine or NY that showed modified traps can be so, genial on an animal they can become "trap happy " which mean they purposely get caught because they know they will get free food in the form of bait and released.
I've caught people hunting dogs multiple times in the same trap at the same location and with the same bait sometimes days in a row. If my traps caused so much agony why would this continue to happen? Honestly a dog is one of nature's smarter animals, you swat them on the button a few times for peeing in the house they have the sense to not per in the house anymore. So you would figure if they where spending hours of pure agony at the same place after trying to get the same smell they wouldn't do it again and again.

And this while thing about us not being apart of the Great circle because we use tools. So chimps and various other primates have been documented as recently using tools such as pointed stocks and such to spear fish and hunt smaller animals. So are they now out of the Great circle? Honestly if a coyote or fox or raccoon could figure out how to use something to obtain food and make life easier wouldn't they. I mean logically speaking. A rat comes into a humans home because living in a house full of scrap food and earth is easier then living in a grass field digging up hay seeds and being chased bay predators. A crow will place nuts in the street for truck to run over and crack because it's easier to do that than to peck at it for 20 minuites . Are these animals not of the Great circle?

I honestly have spoken to many many people who are of the more nature centric beliefs, love all life don't wear fur or eat meat ,hate the idea of killing any living creature some if which are very good friends but they where truly open mind enough to have a civil conversation and try to understand . You are not. You came here feeling as though you know what's right and wrong and truly theirs no changing your mind because you have no desire to truly see from the other side of the glass. I see it with anti trappers and trappers atheists and believers left and right Somone just wants to get in their high horse and preach to the opposition and say they want to debate but truly what they want is their opposition to just sit there and believe everything they say without any dialogue what so ever as you cherrypick every thing you hear to where it is your favor and only your favor and disregard anything else. Because truly all you have been doing is regergutating the same "well it's fine if an animal does it but if you do it" back to back.
Honestly it's fine that you don't like trapping, it's fine you don't eat meat or even you just plain don't agree with us. But this whole idea of wanting to debate and talk along with the self righteous attitude to a subject your earthly biased to to the point it's a waste of everyone's time, as we say here in the south, That dog just ain't gonna hunt hand.
But alas I know where this is going if you even read it to with that being said my you be blessed by what ever being you worship

Petr, why did you send your response to Paul's questionnaire? Why did you choose Trapperman over other sites?

Hmmm. I've had a trap snap on my fingers before.
I didn't like it much nothing broke but I bet my fingers would go numb if I left it on there. Just like an animals paw would.
I'm sure Petr that you have never been on a trap line so you don't know that many many times the caught animal is just laying there sound asleep.
You Petr just like most all the other antis have let your imagination over ride the facts.

just

Sure we all leave our carbon footprints and food-chain footprints. THAT can't be avoided. BUT u don;t need to kill animals for fashion garments!!!

Bad things will happen to u when u are cruel.!!

U call me names only because u can't refute me. How many bad things have happened to u because u trap? Ever ASK yourself?

Mother Theresa had bad things happen in her life, and she was a saint....
Sorry Petr, but you make no sense.

If u are really moving fans and killdeer nests then BULLY for u!!! U have a soft heart. How come u trap then? Tell us how the animal looks when u look in its eyes? Have u ever looked in an animal's eyes when its in your trap?

Have u had bad things happen to u? Karma my friend. Quit trapping and maybe you can quit those pills u have to take for every day of your life!!!

How did you even get on here, this is supposed to be for trappers. Yes you petr?
Seem to be a trouble making anti with the comments you make.

Quit letting the thought of this guy trigger you guys....

No triggering me, just wanting to know how in the world he got on here?
Just a simple question,

I'm afraid Petr is only expressing emotional feelings.

Apparently rooted in his beliefs of karma.

No facts, no science, no real logic.

He is showing that he knows very little about the natural world.

Or how life works really.

My thoughts too but wasn't going to be the first to say it. The only thing Pekr can say is "if something bad has ever happened to you, its because you hurt animals." What about people who don't hurt animals, but still have bad things happen to them. Those 5 teenage girls that died in a car wreck, I can't imagine what they did to deserve dying. Makes no sense whatsoever.

It can be difficult to discuss Western philosophy ways with Eastern philosophy moralists who hold a pantheist worldview.
Why? Because at the core, it is a religious question, not a moral question.
One's view of this world, is a person's context for everything in the world. And West is not East. It hasn't been for 2500 years.

The question(s) may be;

Petr,

What city in Russia do you call home?
To help in our exchanging of ideas, is there a particular religion you place your faith in?

It's quite helpful during the exchanging of ideas, to discover the other person's perspective.

Blessings,
Mark

Wow really is happening right now, I've seen it all now.
I just figured prit was related to someone, i guess i have just well not sure I'm speechless.
All done

What job do you do to earn a living, Petr?

Read first post

Humans dont use claws and teeth to kill because our brains and hand dexterity allow us to make tools.

Petr your philosophy is based on a lie. The lie that we humans are not part of the natural world.

So my dear trapper man friends, here's the deal.
Some of you may not realize there are other tribes and other tongues in our world.
Some may not really care.

We are a tribe (America) steeped in competition and my way or the highway, individualism and win at all cost.
If I had to ask my trapping pals, what do you love about America, we may get 100 answers from 100 people, and you'd all be right.
This is America and we are free to choose, true?

Most of the world is not like us. Much of the world is not near so blessed. Some of the people live in downright h_ll on earth.

Sharon's post was a fine example of humility in written form. It flows easier from a women's pen then from a man's pen in many cases, so we'd invite more humble, yet convicted posts to Petr just like it, correct?

It's a tough stance, to be convicted about something, yet remain humble in it. Especially for the male gender.
This forum isn't a winner take all. It's not win so my pride may boast, and my name will become great among the nations.
Heck, it's just a trapping forum, created in honor of one of the neatest men I've ever known.
Charlie was a humble, convicted do'er of "things," one of which happened to be trapping.
I set up next to him at conventions as often as I could years ago, because his demeanor amide all sorts of people was formative in my life.
Who are you being formative to these days, I would ask all of us prideful dudes?
I promise no one who listened and mentored from the Charles Dobbins types of this world is ranting and raving on the streets these days.
Quite the opposite.

Take a kid trapping. Or fishing. Or picking mushrooms. Our Lord provides all of us in America with plenty.
But please, if you do take a youngster, can we quite trying to make everybody a winner in all things. We've got enough of that in all the groups with acronyms for names.
Disciple them on how to get the job done right, respecting other trappers who love what they love.

Food for thought on a Thursday.
Blessings,
Mark