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Re: Cowardice in the pulpit! [Re: warrior] #7027114
10/25/20 01:44 PM
10/25/20 01:44 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,899
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
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williamsburg ks
It is my opinion that preachers have the same right to free speech as everyone else. It is also my opinion that churches should pay taxes. If they give all their money away to charities their bill won't amount to much.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Cowardice in the pulpit! [Re: danny clifton] #7027117
10/25/20 01:51 PM
10/25/20 01:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,585
MN
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Donnersurvivor Offline
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MN
Originally Posted by danny clifton
It is my opinion that preachers have the same right to free speech as everyone else. It is also my opinion that churches should pay taxes. If they give all their money away to charities their bill won't amount to much.

Property taxes would be murderous for many churches

Re: Cowardice in the pulpit! [Re: warrior] #7027118
10/25/20 01:52 PM
10/25/20 01:52 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,899
williamsburg ks
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danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
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williamsburg ks
property tax is a local issue


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Cowardice in the pulpit! [Re: Paul Dobbins] #7027121
10/25/20 01:55 PM
10/25/20 01:55 PM

M
Mark June
Unregistered
Mark June
Unregistered
M



Originally Posted by Paul Dobbins
The separation of church and state has been misconstrued, in my opinion. The first amendment to the constitution lays out what the government can't do. It doesn't restrict what the churches can do.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.


Truly, Verily, Amen.

Re: Cowardice in the pulpit! [Re: warrior] #7027126
10/25/20 01:59 PM
10/25/20 01:59 PM

M
Mark June
Unregistered
Mark June
Unregistered
M



Originally Posted by warrior
Originally Posted by elkaholic
I also think churches can lose their tax exempt status if the tell the congregation how to vote, or who to vote for.


"Under the Internal Revenue Code, all section 501(c)(3) organizations are absolutely prohibited from directly or indirectly participating in, or intervening in, any political campaign on behalf of (or in opposition to) any candidate for elective public office. Contributions to political campaign funds or public statements of position (verbal or written) made on behalf of the organization in favor of or in opposition to any candidate for public office clearly violate the prohibition against political campaign activity. Violating this prohibition may result in denial or revocation of tax-exempt status and the imposition of certain excise taxes."


Most churches fall within the 501(c)(3) status arena.



Have you ever read the Johnson amendment that gave us that or its History?

It does not specifically say that or directly mention churches. It is vague at best and has a very checkered enforcement history.


Inaccurate. There is another portion of this. There's a percentage involved. It's been a while since I went to war over this clause but I think it's 20% of an orgs proceeds is the cutoff. Bring in 100k... use up to 20K on "lobbying." That's how PETA does it and all the rest. It's not 0% no can do.

Re: Cowardice in the pulpit! [Re: Donnersurvivor] #7027131
10/25/20 02:03 PM
10/25/20 02:03 PM

M
Mark June
Unregistered
Mark June
Unregistered
M



Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by Bob
The church has no place telling anyone how to vote.Separation of church and stateand all.


Nonsense. The separation of church and state is to keep the state out of the church not the church out of the state, there is a clear and distinct difference.


Good call DS. How can it be so many one liners get memorized wrong? Who even started the line, "Separation of church and state?" The Anabaptists sorta had this theme but not in these words.
Another one;
"Never discuss religion and politics" is another one. What? Why? Church always being the first toss is rather interesting in these secular jingles.

grin

Re: Cowardice in the pulpit! [Re: Pike River] #7027135
10/25/20 02:07 PM
10/25/20 02:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,492
central Haudenosaunee, the De...
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white marlin Offline
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central Haudenosaunee, the De...
Originally Posted by Pike River
Church's should stay away from politics...period.


so they shouldn't have helped the Colonists break from Britain?

Shouldn't have preached against slavery?

Shouldn't preach against killing babies?

what SHOULD they preach?

Re: Cowardice in the pulpit! [Re: white marlin] #7027140
10/25/20 02:11 PM
10/25/20 02:11 PM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,570
Dunbar, Wisconsin
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Pike River Offline
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Dunbar, Wisconsin
Originally Posted by white marlin
Originally Posted by Pike River
Church's should stay away from politics...period.


so they shouldn't have helped the Colonists break from Britain?

Shouldn't have preached against slavery?

Shouldn't preach against killing babies?

what SHOULD they preach?

The should preach what's in the Bible.

Quakers are pretty spot on with their stance on politics even if it's to their detriment. Trust in God and his government to straighten things out and quit being presumptuous thinking we can do it.

Last edited by Pike River; 10/25/20 02:11 PM.
Re: Cowardice in the pulpit! [Re: danny clifton] #7027143
10/25/20 02:14 PM
10/25/20 02:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,951
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Blaine County Offline
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Blaine County  Offline
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2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Originally Posted by danny clifton
It is my opinion that preachers have the same right to free speech as everyone else. It is also my opinion that churches should pay taxes. If they give all their money away to charities their bill won't amount to much.


Agree.

Re: Cowardice in the pulpit! [Re: Donnersurvivor] #7027145
10/25/20 02:15 PM
10/25/20 02:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,951
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Blaine County Offline
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Blaine County  Offline
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Posts: 5,951
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Originally Posted by danny clifton
It is my opinion that preachers have the same right to free speech as everyone else. It is also my opinion that churches should pay taxes. If they give all their money away to charities their bill won't amount to much.


Agree.
Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by danny clifton
It is my opinion that preachers have the same right to free speech as everyone else. It is also my opinion that churches should pay taxes. If they give all their money away to charities their bill won't amount to much.

Property taxes would be murderous for many churches


Build more modest churches.

Re: Cowardice in the pulpit! [Re: Actor] #7027147
10/25/20 02:16 PM
10/25/20 02:16 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 63,142
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline

trapper
330-Trapper  Offline

trapper

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 63,142
Minnesota
Originally Posted by Actor
It is so sad that our great country has fallen to these lows......

Garry-

Yes it is


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Cowardice in the pulpit! [Re: Blaine County] #7027152
10/25/20 02:22 PM
10/25/20 02:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,585
MN
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Donnersurvivor Offline
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MN
Originally Posted by Blaine County

Build more modest churches.


Alright well say goodbye to the old wooden churches on the hill overlooking the lake.

Re: Cowardice in the pulpit! [Re: warrior] #7027154
10/25/20 02:22 PM
10/25/20 02:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,951
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Blaine County Offline
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2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Some of y'all need to take a deep breath.

If a honest pastor preached a honest sermon about the election he/she would tell the flock to stay home on November 3 and, instead, pray for our country. Neither one of them deserve the JC stamp of approval.

I'm only voting for Trump because of 2A, taxes, oil and BLM. It stops there.

Re: Cowardice in the pulpit! [Re: Donnersurvivor] #7027157
10/25/20 02:23 PM
10/25/20 02:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,951
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Blaine County Offline
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Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by Blaine County

Build more modest churches.


Alright well say goodbye to the old wooden churches on the hill overlooking the lake.


I have no idea what you are talking about but ok.

Re: Cowardice in the pulpit! [Re: Blaine County] #7027162
10/25/20 02:28 PM
10/25/20 02:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2018
Posts: 4,585
MN
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Donnersurvivor Offline
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Originally Posted by Blaine County
Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor


Alright well say goodbye to the old wooden churches on the hill overlooking the lake.


I have no idea what you are talking about but ok.


It is possibly more of a local thing but many of the old churches were built on hills over looking the lake. As the lakes have been built up and land prices have skyrocketed it would near impossible for the congregations of mostly older folks to pay the taxes on these plots anymore. I do not care to see these older people lose the churches they attended since they were kids, were they were married, were the had the funeral for their spouse.

Re: Cowardice in the pulpit! [Re: warrior] #7027167
10/25/20 02:32 PM
10/25/20 02:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,492
central Haudenosaunee, the De...
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white marlin Offline
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Originally Posted by Pike River
They should preach what's in the Bible.

Quakers are pretty spot on with their stance on politics even if it's to their detriment. Trust in God and his government to straighten things out and quit being presumptuous thinking we can do it.


I was under the impression that they DID preach against slavery...

Re: Cowardice in the pulpit! [Re: white marlin] #7027168
10/25/20 02:36 PM
10/25/20 02:36 PM
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Dunbar, Wisconsin
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Pike River Offline
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Originally Posted by white marlin
Originally Posted by Pike River
They should preach what's in the Bible.

Quakers are pretty spot on with their stance on politics even if it's to their detriment. Trust in God and his government to straighten things out and quit being presumptuous thinking we can do it.


I was under the impression that they DID preach against slavery...

Individually they were opposed to slavery based in their protestant work ethic. I don't believe they backed a specific candidate or party. I could very well be wrong.

Re: Cowardice in the pulpit! [Re: Blaine County] #7027176
10/25/20 02:47 PM
10/25/20 02:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,657
Georgia
warrior Offline OP
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Georgia
Originally Posted by Blaine County


Build more modest churches.


K, what about the historical church that when first built was sitting in the sticks but now resides on the busiest intersection next to the interstate? Should they be forced off their land by the tax bill?

First Baptist Atlanta now sits in Dunwoody not Atlanta as they have moved five times in their history as the city and congestion if not taxes drove them north.


[Linked Image]
Re: Cowardice in the pulpit! [Re: Donnersurvivor] #7027180
10/25/20 02:51 PM
10/25/20 02:51 PM
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Posts: 130
N Central Kansas
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ZionHeritageFarm Offline
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N Central Kansas
Originally Posted by Donnersurvivor
Originally Posted by Bob
The church has no place telling anyone how to vote. Separation of church and state and all.


Nonsense. The separation of church and state is to keep the state out of the church not the church out of the state, there is a clear and distinct difference.



This term “ separation of church and state” is very much misquoted and misunderstood. Typical of today’s world, to hear something and run with it, requiring it to serve ones own purpose rather than actually learning the facts.

This term appears nowhere in the US Constitution or any other US document. It in fact was written in a personal letter by Patrick Henry stressing the fact that the government must never be allowed to interfere with the business of the church. Part of the fact that backs up the intent of this is, the letter was written on a Friday. That Sunday Mr Henry attended the largest Christian Church in the nation at the time, held where ???
The United States Capitol Building.
There are pages and pages of quotes by the founding fathers stressing the importance of Christian Values and God into what this country was built and based upon. Not to mention that the US Constitution and the Constitution of every single of the 50 states makes reference to God or the creator in the very first sentence.
Hillsdale College offers a host of free online courses on the Constitution, the Founding Fathers, etc, if anyone is interested in learning the facts about our country.

Last edited by ZionHeritageFarm; 10/25/20 03:04 PM.

From Zion, perfect in beauty, God shines forth. Psalms 50:2
Re: Cowardice in the pulpit! [Re: warrior] #7027183
10/25/20 02:53 PM
10/25/20 02:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,951
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Blaine County Offline
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2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Originally Posted by warrior
Originally Posted by Blaine County


Build more modest churches.


K, what about the historical church that when first built was sitting in the sticks but now resides on the busiest intersection next to the interstate? Should they be forced off their land by the tax bill?

First Baptist Atlanta now sits in Dunwoody not Atlanta as they have moved five times in their history as the city and congestion if not taxes drove them north.


Sure. If it's members can't support it. That's not the responsibility of the entire community.

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