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Re: Pilate ... Gods choice to fulfill Scripture [Re: James] #7035270
11/02/20 01:16 AM
11/02/20 01:16 AM

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Mark June
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Mark June
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M



Originally Posted by James
My son had a conversion moment. He says Jesus literally came into his heart while at a Bible study meeting an acquaintance took him to. He was hanging out with some bad characters at the time, so we weren't disappointed when he turned to God. He's never been able to explain it to me fully, but I can see in his eyes that he believes.

Jim


The pastor in me suggests to you smile as his dad, grab a cool drink, head out the back door, walk a few steps into the crisp night air, look up, and quietly say out loud "thank you God," for gathering up your boy. It doesn't get any better James. At any level. And I bet you already know that. Maybe can't explain it. But you know it.

We have your sons and daughters but a little while.
God desires for all eternity in this life and into the next.
God still gathers to Him.
That's the miracle.

Blessings,
Mark

Re: Pilate ... Gods choice to fulfill Scripture [Re: James] #7035328
11/02/20 07:31 AM
11/02/20 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by James
Then God's will dictated Pilate's.

You can't equate some human decision with the will of an omnipotent God. What God wants, God gets.

Jim

Ok, I understand where you're coming from here, because I've had the same questions.
I land on the free will side, against John Calvin and with John Wesley.
But, you also have to realize that God knows everything that will be. So, he doesn't have to control people to get the overall outcome he wants. That's not to say that God always gets his way. But, it didn't matter if Pilate or someone else delivered Jesus up, all that mattered was that it happened and all God had to do was to know all the factors involved so he knew when to "invade" earth with the birth of a seemingly normal child who was actually God incarnate.


Right now I’m having amnesia and déjà vu at the same time. I think I’ve forgotten this before.
Re: Pilate ... Gods choice to fulfill Scripture [Re: James] #7035345
11/02/20 07:57 AM
11/02/20 07:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 63,123
Minnesota
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Minnesota
Originally Posted by James
My son had a conversion moment. He says Jesus literally came into his heart while at a Bible study meeting an acquaintance took him to. He was hanging out with some bad characters at the time, so we weren't disappointed when he turned to God. He's never been able to explain it to me fully, but I can see in his eyes that he believes.

Jim

That's Awesome


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Pilate ... Gods choice to fulfill Scripture [Re: James] #7035491
11/02/20 10:43 AM
11/02/20 10:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,333
Hancock Co., Indiana
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Originally Posted by James
Mark, my MIL may have believed in a god, but it wouldn't have been the God you know. She never read the Bible or had it read to her.

She had probably heard of Jesus, but only as a holy man like Mohammed or Moses. Someone studied in history or foreign culture class. Jesus was never shown to her as the Savior.

Don't Christians believe that in order to go to heaven you have to accept Jesus as your Savior? My poor MIL is dammed for eternity because she didn't know who Jesus was.

Yes, there are some things my reason can't accept.

Jim



That is pretty much the exact same reasoning I had when I gave up on Christianity in my early adulthood. I knew it would not be a just God who rejected people who never even heard of Jesus but then rewarded some church kid with eternal life. That's not good or fair. I wouldn't worship a God like that. The logic is that if God is good and loving, and God is omnipotent and all-knowing, then nobody goes to (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman). Or, if people go to (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman), then God cannot be both good and omnipotent.

But then I found out that this entire proposition is a false choice based on a finite, man-made understanding of an infinite and incomprehensible God. I never knew it back then, but there have been libraries full of books written on this topic. I've read a few and some are good and some are bad. It's an issue that I never stop thinking about as I read the Bible or listen to teaching or talk with others. We have to realize that the God described in the Bible is not necessarily who we think He should be or wish He was. At some point, to follow Christ, we have to look at this evil, broken, and fallen world and accept on faith that somehow, for some reason we can't understand, every detail of this world, in its entirety, is in some way working out and unfolding according to God's plan and purpose, for His glory alone, despite the free and independent actions of its wicked creatures.

"Both deceived and deceiver are His"
"from the East I summon a bird of prey, from the West a man to fulfill my purpose".

It's hard to conceive of many truths revealed in the Bible. Can we mortals really fathom eternity, pure love, justice, or righteousness? Can we wrap our mind around a power that can speak matter, energy, time and life into existence? I don't think we can. And, likewise it is rationally inconceivable for us that mankind can make his own free and independent choices from his own free will, and yet the Creator is sovereign and operating through the free will of the creatures to achieve every exact detail of His eternal plan and purpose. But I know this to be true. That's who God claims Himself to be in his written Word.

I have other thoughts on this that are directly intertwined with these ideas but are also controversial within the Christian religion. I think my understanding of salvation and the "ordo salutis" goes very far to resolve this supposed logical dilemma. But it's not really a key point of the Christian faith and to avoid distraction and dissention I won't go into it here or now.


What from Christ that soul can sever,
Bound by everlasting bands?
None shall take thee
From the Strength of Israel's hands.

Re: Pilate ... Gods choice to fulfill Scripture [Re: 330-Trapper] #7035557
11/02/20 12:25 PM
11/02/20 12:25 PM
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Pontius Pilate was an interesting fellow. Just my opinion, but it would not surprise me that when I get to Heaven to see Pilate there.

Pilate was put in a difficult position……the same one that all of us are put in. He had to make a choice between Jesus and the world. It was a difficult choice and he struggled with it. I shutter and it scares me to reflect on how many times I have chosen the world over Jesus. I have chosen the world over Jesus so many times in my life many times not even realizing it until later, that all I can do is ask God for His forgiveness and thank Him for His Love, Grace, and Mercy. Chancey


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Re: Pilate ... Gods choice to fulfill Scripture [Re: Yukon John] #7035559
11/02/20 12:33 PM
11/02/20 12:33 PM
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Greene County,Virginia
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Originally Posted by Yukon John
Pilate had no will...he washed his hands of it...presumably Jesus was going to suffer, and die; it just so happened that he was in charge at the time, and is "credited" for the admonishment.

X2.


wanna be goat farmer.
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