I love the smell of pine trees.
And muskrat fat.
And a wood stove.
On Christmas morning.

I used to get up early when we lived in MI on the lake, and get my traps checked and critters skinned and fleshed, before company arrived for dinner.

Sorry to have derailed the thread.

My take on the bible is that Jesus never involved himself in politics.

I appreciate reading others views on the topic

Digging this thread.

The Lord does not need anybody's permission to be sovereign, validation by deeply enlightened thinkers, or vain attempts to earn a dang thing. We are a mess, even the best of us. Have a good day.

It doesn't have to be either way, it is neither.

May just be fulfillment of prophecy. Brother against brother is part of that fulfillment. Just glad to know how the story ends.

Romans 13 is pretty clear on this subject...God establishes the governing authorities, and we are to obey them and pay our taxes, unless doing so would be sinful, of course. So yes, if Joe Biden is the next president, it's because God wanted him there.

JOHN 19 :11

These guys need to make a comeback, doing Gods will one sword stroke at a time.

More comfortable holding it that way after a long day of doing Gods will.

I would say that God makes use of means to accomplish His purposes. God can make use of a democratic election of representatives to accomplish his plan, or he can make use of legislatures and judges. He can make use of dictators, wars, evil men, and forces of nature to bring about exactly what he has planned. The Bible is full of examples of mankind taking their own independent and free activities, but all of it has worked to bring about the exact outcome that God has intended.

The American Revolution was a terribly illegal and wicked rebellion against a lawfully established ruling authority. Every one of the leaders of that revolution was guilty of treason and lawfully deserved to hanged by the neck until dead. Yet I am convinced the success of the American Revolution was an obvious miracle of God. No other way could a handful of raggedy, untrained, unequipped kids militarily defeat one of the most powerful world-wide empires history has ever known.

I know you are absolutely correct when you say, "If God wants Trump to win I firmly believe Trump will win, but if Biden wins I also believe that is who God wants even though we may not understand his purposes. What we want, or think is best for us, is not always in line with God‘s plan." You are positively correct in that. But, take that one step further.... If Biden wins through a fraudulent election, that is what God wanted to happen. If Trump wins by thwarting a fraudulent election through the means of the judicial and legislative branches of government, that is also what God wanted to happen. There's no way a few hundred million voters or a handful of judges and legislators can defeat and overcome God's plan. You would never hear God say, "Buggers! I tried to get Joe Biden elected, but that darn Trump guy and his followers figured out a way to beat me." You know that doesn't make any sense.

The only sure way I know to find out what God wants to happen is to wait and see what happens.

Right on, man! Put on the whole armor of God!

No need to apologize. Great grandpa's era that hounded, "We don't talk about politics or religion in this house!" as the family quit going to the alter, humbling themselves, and everybody began watching amusement on TV to "zone out," is being revisited. Did great grandpa know best? Nope.

The founders of America squabbled with much admiration amongst themselves about politics and religion! It was their underpinnings! What is our culture's underpinning? I have no idea. Do you? Do they?
I offer we've gained much at the expense of our souls as a nation. All sorts of wonderful things to bless us. All manner of technology. How's the suicide rate? How's the divorce rate? How's the porno view rate? How's the love one another and pray for your enemy rate?

Jesus came as the Messiah - the One promised - to fulfill the Scripture and the prophecies His Father Promised the woman and her husband in the garden in Genesis chapter 3. If you know the story plot, you see why Jesus came.

The religious zealots of that day, and certainly the unbelievers, didn't believe He was the Messiah. They were looking for a warrior type to help them defeat Rome! Instead, a Lamb of Judea? What?

They didn't know the story as had been written and foretold.
Do we? Same story. You don't need to be a preacher or a pastor or a priest to know it. Just read it.

And then Jesus went beyond as only Christ according to Scripture and prophecy could/would = He is Risen!
Game changer! He is the Genesis chapter 3 Messiah!
Like He said He was.
But not because He or the disciples "said" it (although valid).... "he did it" as written and prophesied over the whole course of Scripture.
And many came to believe.
Some still do.
And many do not.
There's no signing up in God's Kingdom by the point of a gun.
That's other places and other religions.
Or bad men using God's Son's name for their personal gain (how novel).

Jesus, and John the Baptist before Him, and Jesus' disciples after Him, all taught the same thing.
The Kingdom of God is at hand.
Look out your window brother.
The sun is up waiting for the Son.
It's a great day to be alive and Christ is on the throne at the right hand of the Father as the Spirit dwells here on earth in those who follow the Way.


Blessings,
Mark

This should help.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6O3qbhv0sVs

Its pretty obvious whats going on. Jupiter is upset that people refer to him now as mythology.

Juno is upset that birth control is so common.

Mars is pretty happy. Lots of war being waged. He IS upset though that so little credit is given to him.

Mercury is unhappy about travel restrictions

Neptune is mad he doesn't get credit for hurricanes anymore. Everything blamed on somebody named El Nino or something

Venus is jealous of all the attention actress's have been getting for the last hundred years or so.

Apollo is unhappy that he doesn't get any credit for all the advances in medicine. ( he turned the horrid covid 19 virus loose on mankind)

Diana is fit to be tied. Anti hunting/trapping/meat is rampant. She is pushing Jupiter to wreak even more confusion amongst the mortals.

Minerva still sits quietly inspiring scientists.

Ceres is unhappy. Modern agriculture has completely ignored her.

Vulcan can't believe machines have taken over his realm

Vesta is upset that so many children dont have any meaningful family or home

So until we return to proper veneration of the Gods, we will just have to keep dealing with problems. don't lose sight of the fact that Elysium is the reward to those who show proper respect and adulation to the Gods. We are being punished as a nation for turning our backs on them.

God allows people free will to do what they want.

Nothing confusing once one accepts that everything happens for a reason, in Gods terms, and we will/may never know the why, when, what for, reasons.

Joel Chapter 3 and then Zechariah chapter 14 and then Revelation toward the end has a wonderful summary of what happens to the goats.
And goat worshippers.

Solid prophecy to live by.

Blessings,
Mark

People are now saying, why vote at all? States are changing voting laws and procedures in the middle of the game.

We love you man!

Be still and know that God is God.

God gave us free will.