Thanks Sharon. I appreciate your thoughts.

Jack

Never trapped a Marten in my life but I can tell there is allot of "meat" in this thread

Sharon, I trust your not insinuating Jack is the only one participating in this thread with a “lifetime” of experience. Your mistaken if you are. As well, none of the other Alaskans participating need SEARCH for science. We are all knowledgeable, experienced trappers.

I have a question for you interior guys. Not exactly germane to this thread, but sort of..
During March of 2004 I believe it was, I was helping a guide friend of mine (the famous, or infamous, wolf killer from Healy) haul hay from the highway up the Yanert river up over the divide into the Wood River drainage and then down stream for several miles. It was probably close to 50 miles each way by snowmachine. I have no experience in south-central or interior Alaska with marten. However, the country we were going through for the most part looked to me like great marten country. But, I never saw one marten track.
What's up with that?

It will be interesting to see if Boco line has the freeze-out of small mammal population this year since he had snow then melting conditions and what his marten harvest will be.

martentrapper -

Sharon was referencing my somewhat disparaging remarks in my previous post. Those disparaging remarks were directed towards certain members of the "scientific community" that tend to look down their noses on us "mere trappers" because we lack statistical rigor in our observations. She and I have had previous discussions on the validity of certain of these "scientific" papers which, too often, ignore the reality of what trappers have known for decades, because it doesn't fit with their "science". I have laughed at the way they pronounce the word "research", (which is often "RE-search" rather than "re-SEARCH"). I don't want to RE-search anything if it's already been re-SEARCHED. Sharon was merely saying she trusts the observations of trappers over those peer-reviewed scientific contributions of "scientists". She wasn't dis-ing anyone participating in this thread.

Merry Christmas to all.

Jack

Gulo you got it all wrong, those should be pronounced " Me-search" as the spotlight is to shine on them.( I'm a DR and you don't talk up to me... attitude)

"ME-seach", HA! I love it! How true, how true....

I was hoping trapped4ever might weigh in on this discussion. Now that trapper has some insights regarding marten...

Jack

Maybe you were in front or behind the "wave"?

The "wave" Oh! It's Real!

The problem with the "wave" is it blows a hole in the home range theory.

Yes he does. From what i've gathered, his population doesnt cycle like it does in the interior. Probably because of the constant food supply the coast provides??

I would be interested to hear others thoughts on lemmings ( bog) as a food source. Some of the highest densities of marten tracks Ive ever seen were in an area with an unbelievable population of lemmings. I have never trapped that area, but have hunted it extensively. Late in the fall when the snow comes the marten sign is incredible.

Dirt, I have questioned the home range theory too.

I videoed a marten chasing a hare at highway pull over last weekend on my way up to the trapline. I’ll try and figure how to post it when I get time.

Just from my observations.............I suspect it was just crappy marten habitat. For several years I trapped an area that I really had to work hard to take 20 marten. It was great fox country though. But evidently there was something missing that a healthy marten population required.

I moved about 60 miles southwest and got into an area where 100 marten by Christmas was easy. I have thought a lot about the difference in those two areas over the years. The only OBVIOUS difference that I can see is the different soil types. Along with that, I THINK, must come different plant life as well as small mammal species and density. Even in this newer area I have a section of 8 or 9 miles that is like a biological desert. I don't know what is missing there but something clearly is.

Eventually, I set up a line that ran from area one to area two. It was really evident while traveling northeast toward the old area that there were fewer tracks of everything except fox. Fox density increased moving that direction.

Cat density,while never great, also increased .

Moose density in the new area was much higher and I suspect that supports, somewhat, my comment about soil differences. There may also be a slight difference in temperature regime . It MAY be that the newer area is slightly warmer statistically than the old area.

I remember in the 70's doing soil temperatures from Winnipeg to Thompson 800km and then on the west side of the province. We stopped at 50+ locations and did profile temps down to 2 meters on predrilled probes. One of the riches area was by ScooterMac spot in Waboden . Depending upon the soil over what type of material is important for winter/ spring thawing conditions and the soils development. This in turn goes to vegetation and it's nutrition and then to the wildlife that feeds on it.
Areas over limestone formations warmed up slowly in the spring , but remember that they have large/ small chambers for the animals to go into, and I have had marten go down for 10 days below surface @ -30c only to be caught when they come out.
If only some small mammal populations were sampled !
Remember that a lot of small mammals reproduce during the winter under the snow layer, anyone with crops laying in the fields can see the meadow voles reproducing through the winter, to be over-run in the spring thaw.

white17 and Northof50 -

Very interesting observations. I've never really given soils types (or underlying bedrock types) much thought. Guess I'd better change my evil ways. Good food for thought. Thanks.

Obviously, soils dictate the vegetation type and lushness, so it makes perfect sense to assume it would affect the small mammals that reside thereupon, and, in turn, the predators.

martentrapper,

I sure am glad you mentioned your concern on my comments to Jack...this allows me to gladly explain to you what I meant, though Jack covered that completely.

The last thing I ever want is misunderstanding...and my mind nor heart wasn't even thinking about all the great experienced trappers , in any state, that know their land and animals intimately when I made my comment.

Matter of fact , I did state somewhere in this sandbox of trapped4ever , who is in SE AK, of his amazing depth of knowledge as an awesome trapper , and one who has harvested astounding numbers of marten for years on his longlines , who knows how to take such good care of the population of marten . I too would love to see his input here. I'm also pestering him for a couple more taxi skinned marten , this time to admire on my wall , instead of made into a garment.

JR is another trapper who comes to my mind , his energy and knowledge of the land, and enjoying everything he sees , the artist in him, is endless , Sir Ken is another man like that , I could go on and on with others.

So yes, I do happily acknowledge and so much appreciate all the trappers who, in my opinion, really reflect the heartbeat of the land and its animals more than some of the others who in their occupation,have sat behind a desk more than have true years of experience in the bush.

So actually, I was saying just the opposite , and defending trappers.

Thank you, martentrapper, for allowing me to explain my intent , to you, or anyone else that it may apply. One thing you can double Arkansas guarantee about me, is that I always defend trappers , and fearlessly and patiently explain the trapper's high value on this earth to anyone who doesn't know about them, or who gives erroneous comments in anti trapping thoughts. I love when I can skillfully speak with them to success.

I never intend to dis anyone . I am glad to explain so that no one may misunderstand what I meant.

Jack, I did have that backwards ! RE search !! Ha !

Manitoba with its flat landscape was scraped clean with only 6-7000 years to mature some of those soil types. So rock formation below did supply much of the nutrition.
Now slopes on mountain sides have the same type of development but in micro settings. Explains your barren ride between spots White. I know one place we went into was 800 m off the road and the tamarack you could put your finger to thumb around them and they were 150+ years old, that was over a small depression of a gypsum formation. Show shoeing in there we never came across any small mammal pop-outs on the trail, like we would encounter at the other spots.

A Professor once said to me; if you ask a question ?; there will be two answers and then two more questions. So be prepared to think....but BY asking the question you are thinking.

2 answers 2 more questions....typical professor.....job security.....LOL

Sorry this was before Google came on the scene. He was someone who lost from Alaska and pardoned 40 years later. (Pruit) ie The Fire Cracker Boys

Sharon you cant back petal on this one; it will cost you to post one of your marten prints here; to get a Out of Jail Card

Sharon, “double Arkansas guarantee “ that sounds like something a person could market.
I got more questions AND answers but only have a phone so will wait!