I may not be current on the latest thoughts on this subject, so please correct me if I'm wrong.
(For the sake of this discussion I'm not including fisher.)

Back in the 70's there were many "sub-species" of marten listed in North America; most of the justification for the different sub-species being based on morphological differences. Then along came the wonders of DNA and it was realized that there were only two truly distinct sub-species recognizable; Martes americana americana, and Martes americana caurina.

Then politics entered into the equation and people with an agenda started to divide them up again. Now we supposedly have "endangered" subspecies" that need legal protection. This is happening in Washington, Oregon and California (any surprise?).

???

We now see the same thing happening with wolves, the attempt to make more distinct and obscure subspecies in order to justify adding legal protections.

Right on the money Waggler.
Marten throughout their range are surprisingly non diverse.Like lynx they migrate extremely long distances and their dna is fairly homogenous.
There are differences in population sections of course but not on a level that the environmentalist/protectionists would have people believe.

I knew Crosspatch would know the crowberry Empetrum nigrum name.
At Churchill the large geese that move up in June non breeders and AHY birds ( maximius) feed on these and cloud berries well past freeze-up. When you get them in southern Manitoba past 1 November and the birds hit the ground they just explode they are so fat. It is a crime to breast those birds and not bake them because of the flavour that come out.
HBC employees out of Fort Churchill they use to put down barrels of the fall birds as larter for the winter months. Funny thing was many of them were Eskimo Curlews back in the historic days.

Dave I suspect you are talking about crow berries.....Empetrum nigrum. Many times in the spring I have picked them in the tundra. They have wintered over from the year before. They are about the only plant you can find to eat in late April early May around here.

Your lower picture looks like large areas of my line. Lots of marten out there...or will GO out there to investigate a visual attractor. It almost seems as though something moving in the wind is irresistible to most marten

Marten systematics in North America is complicated, and still, biologists are not in agreement. The recent wizardry with genetic fingerprinting (DNA), in my opinion, is still undergoing development, and will be in flux for years to come as advancements are made. To my knowledge (and this is changing almost daily), this is the current thinking amongst most biologists: There are two species of marten in North America. Martes caurina, the Pacific Marten, lives in coastal SW BC, down the coast through Washington, Oregon, and N. California. Also, this is the species in Idaho, Wyoming, down into Colorado. It also occurs in Alaska, only on Admiralty and Kuiu Islands. Martes americana, the American Marten occupies Mainland Alaska (and has been introduced on many islands in SE Alaska), through Canada all the way across the continent to the Maritime Provinces, and is the species in the upper midwest states and New England. These two species were accepted by most biologists up until at least 1953. Then, the two species were lumped, and we had a single species in North America (Martes americana). More recently, studies using mitochondrial DNA, and later, nuclear DNA, have shown (suggested?) that the "caurina" and "americana" groups are separate species. In my opinion, this is arguable (I'm a lumper, not a splitter).There is a wide zone of overlap between the two purported species, where marten interbreed and produce fertile offspring (the definition of a species), so a lot of southern BC and north Idaho have a hybrid. I have collected a series of skulls from Alaska, down through Yukon, BC, and Alberta, and through Idaho, and this large sample (many hundreds of skulls housed at the Museum of the Desert Southwest at Albuquerque, UNM) suggests that there is a clinal variation throughout the marten's range, just as one would suspect following Bergman's and Allen's Rules. Further delineations into subspecies to me are meaningless, if we can't even agree on species. The most recent taxonomy I'm aware of was published in 1987, listing three subspecies of caurina, and five subspecies of americana.

Throughout recent history, the pendulum between the lumpers and the splitters has swung back and forth numerous times. With the wizardry of newfound DNA studies, we are currently in an era of splitters. That will swing back the other way in the future, I suspect, and North American marten will again be "lumped" into a single species, Martes americana. On the other hand, we could very well end up with 8 different species if the geneticists get their way, and management would be in turmoil.

Clear as mud? For all practical purposes, the various management jurisdictions have managed marten as a single species (which makes perfect sense, as I contend that they are, indeed, a single species with 2 subspecific variations).

I apologize for this newly-thrown monkey wrench.

Happy 2021 to all!!!

Jack

Thanks for putting the species definition to bed, even though it has a muddy sheet at that.
As both Gibb and I have worked on the grading floor over the past by gone years, many 10,000's of skins have passed under us every year.
You can certainly tell the Montana and some of the coastal marten as they pass by on the floor. They just flip differently in the fur quality/ characteristics/texture, then there was the bar code tag from the region as a backup plan B.
Those NWT barren ground marten are like a sea otter in a group of river otter as comparison for size,(disclaimer those were not at the auction's possession )

I remember a thread on here a couple years back about the top lot of marten at Nafa.
The top lot was 8 marten skins I believe and those skins came from all across the northern part of the continent.
There were skins from Labrador,Northern Quebec,North eastern Ont,North western Ont,Northern Manitoba,and Alaska.
This goes to show the homogeneity of the species across the northern tier(boreal forest)
The main sectional difference in fur seems to be North to south as would be expected due to adaptations for climate.

But wait! What about the famously well known Pine Marten?

^^^^^
Gurrr, what really bugs me is when I hear North American biologists refer to marten by that name.
I immediately discount whatever they have to say.

Same with "pine squirrel"-no such thing.

15 skins March 2013 FHA auction top lot* went for $1300 US each. 3 Labrador, 1 James Bay Cree Northern Quebec, 2 northern Ontario, 2 Manitoba, 2 British Columbia, 2 North West Territories and 3 Alaska. I know cause I had one of the Labrador ones and called the grader, Mark Finnegan, for the details. Next was 40 skins for $310 US each. A year later used the money to make the trip to mecca (FHA AGM/Convention in North Bay) and bought Mark F. a couple of triples at the Saturday night rip.

More to the point all this splitting marten, and other species like wolves up, is a crock of B.S. There is gradient east/west and north/south and diagonally whatever way you want to slice it. The marten are all interbreeding with the ones next to them and even up to 40 miles away (longest distance collared marten** moved back a few years ago - do not have current data). So there is gene flow seeping very slowly across the continent. Certain traits predominate, or are less, in some areas of course but not so much that they are different species that can not successfully interbreed i.e. therefore the same species.

** a Manitoba one

*Same grade of top lot marten topped at $650 US at the NAFA February sale 2013. All in the sales results records for both auctions.

Just to put things in perspective

2001 Top Lot $43 Since they were 2X-Xl X- Pales They probably came mostly from Alaska that year. Heck probably had half my XP heavies in that lot.

P.S. Those are orange, but not canaries.

Got a few minutes. Going back a ways in the discussion, here's a good illustration of the results of "territorial chewing", for those who haven't seen it. It often seems to be done by dominant males, when they find other marten in your sets...



Y254, those sound like what I've always called Crow Berries, here. Traditionally, they were mixed in with blueberries, during years of low blueberry abundance, to "stretch" the blueberries further. Regional plant, animal, & fish names make things kind of "hazy" at times. Salmon berries in SE Alaska are totally different than Salmonberry (Cloudberry) in Western Alaska, for example.

Boco, here is GOOD marten country here. The Spruce valley behind and below the sled is crawling with marten.....




Northof50,
WAIT!!! Are you saying the barcodes actually did specify the origin of the pelt by region?? I was assured that this wasn't the case??? Maybe you are pulling our leg, or do you just mean region meaning State, Province, or Territory?

crosspatch,
I know some of our local marten studies (mostly conducted through the 1990's), showed longer marten movement than that. At least 3 individuals with ear tags, were harvested by trappers, over 60 miles away from the site they were ear tagged, less than a year later. I personally think marten move further (in my region), and more often than seems to be commonly presented. The home range size, and overlapping of home ranges was something I was hoping to hear other people comment on, since I think different regions (habitat diversity, prey, weather, snow, etc) are bound to have different behaviors. Obviously, natal den sites would create some incentive for females to keep a relatively small home range, during Spring birthing/ rearing. I've always thought males to be much more prone to wandering, and leaving "established" home ranges. I find it interesting that despite being located in the "inferior" fur quality area of coastal Alaska, I too, have had numerous, true Top Lot marten, from both NAFA and FHA, including that BIG season of 2012-2013. I know quite a few in the Top Lot at NAFA that year (2012-2013), came from right close by ; ) Surprising actually, since coastal Alaska is so often thought of as having inferior fur, to the colder regions of the state. Probably our marten are just so much darker, due to never getting any sunlight exposure (always overcast, rain or snowing). HA!

Gulo,
Do you know if the marten on adjacent (to Kuiu), Kupreanof and Mitkof Islands have been looked at closely (DNA)? It would be interesting to know if they are pure Martes americana, or have hybridized with caurina? Those islands are pretty close, but the currents through Rocky Pass and Wrangell Narrows may eliminate any chance of an "ice bridge" forming to connect the islands, or the potential of marten drifting on ice pans/ logs, or any swimming (more like floundering, from what I've seen) across those bodies of water.
Curiously, I have occasionally caught marten on small islands around coastal SE (in otter or mink sets), that I'm assuming were able to cross on the ice, and ended up stranded, once the ice melted. These have all been larger, 5 acres or more, timbered islands, so who knows how long they had been stranded?

Dirt,
Do your marten seem to run predominantly pale-xpale? It seems like you mention having paler marten a lot, or do you just get a few mixed in with the more "normal" colors? I tend to get a handful of pales-xpales, but they certainly aren't my predominant color phase. I'm truly curious what anyone with knowledge on this subject has to say......... Gulo probably can tell me straight off, and be dead on, but it's something I've never looked into much..... Will the amount of sunlight in a region, "bleach out" furbearers coloration, similar to humans hair, during a warm, sunny summer? So say for example, my beaver, otter, mink, and marten, are often referred to as "much darker than average" by many of the fur buyers I've sold to. Is this simply genetics, or a "bonus", to suffering through the typical overcast coastal weather?

As for the bar code tags certain depos had certain colours. When on the floor with a scanner a check@ F6 would show who the trapper was on the computer screen. Some guys took smoke breaks, mine were educational breaks.
With the bar codes for example they are made up in batches of a million at a time, guess what FHA picked up after the bankruptcy for their operation.

Crosspatch it could be a marten that I came across grading, the long distance traveller. The tell tail cross stripe of worn fur where the saddle was there was no missing it. The trapper wanted to be paid " restitution for damages" since that marten went into badly damaged and got 5 bucks vs that grade was probably worth 150$. He held onto that collar till after the auction and was at odds with Ontario Resources. It almost got to Manitoba but was in Kenora Ontario 3 miles short of Manitoba boarder. What it did create was a lot more paper work for researchers doing that type of work. I'm not at liberty to say who the trapper was being a public forum.

trapped4ever,
Regarding Kuiu, I read recently that a DNA study of marten there showed them to be a hybridization of M. americana and M. Caurina. The marten on Kuiu are having a difficult time apparently, I saw the number of trap nights required to catch one and it was very high. They have since closed the season on Kuiu I believe. Could this hybridization be adversely effecting reproduction?

If I remember correctly I think Admiralty Island were all caurina. The other B&C islands were introduced if I'm not mistaken.

I'm pretty sure Mitkof and Kupreanof islands are americana.

Over 50% will go Pale ....Xpale. The rest will go from LBR to XD If it is an XD or DK adult male it will be in the Top two Lots probably.

Yes demand can change . The 2013 skins at both auctions were 2X XDk Hvy Select at both sales. Probably super select at NAFA was the name at the time.

trapper4ever - yes like I mentioned info. I had re. dispersal was dated. Actually from 1987 Novak's "fur bible". Have no doubt, and very much agree, dispersal distances are further since more data collected since then.

North of 50: In Novak's 1987 "Fur Bible" book. Collar was furthest of a number that were collared. R.M. Raine is author of the study that Novak quoted. Can. Field Nat. 96:431-438. Exact distance was 38 miles but again old data as I mentioned and more recent, as trapped4ever mentions, shows longer distances.

38 mile marten was 1982 or earlier as article in Can. Field Nat. dated 1982. Again very much dated info. and lots of marten studies over last 38+ yrs. most probably show longer dispersal distances as I mentioned earlier and t4ever also.

This marten travelled much longer distances. Maybe someone from Kenora can chime in as it was quite a gong show, and the outcome I do not know if the charges were dropped.

So of those Minnesota marten that were collared were caught by several members on here,
What were some of their distances ?. I believe the study area was around Fort Ripley military base