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Fireforming brass #7145093
01/19/21 06:22 PM
01/19/21 06:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,656
Northeast Oklahoma
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Mike in A-town Offline OP
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Mike in A-town  Offline OP
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Northeast Oklahoma
A while back I came across posts on different forums about using small amounts of pistol/shotgun powder and Cream of Wheat to fireform rifle brass.

I never looked into it further but stored the idea in the back of my head.

Fast forward to the present climate of shortages of reloading components and my brain said, "Hey! Don't waste precious rifle powder and expensive bullets... Use a few grains of Unique and CoW." Locally I can find pistol/shotgun powder without too much trouble so I have considered giving it a try. It would be nice to be able to form virgin brass to my rifle chamber without using up valuable components

Anybody else used this method?

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Fireforming brass [Re: Mike in A-town] #7145113
01/19/21 06:29 PM
01/19/21 06:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 1,660
Va. Lee Co.
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Donnie H Online content
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Va. Lee Co.
I've not but know a lot that does.
If you get on accurate shooter, I'm sure its been
talked about alot.

Re: Fireforming brass [Re: Donnie H] #7145146
01/19/21 06:48 PM
01/19/21 06:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,656
Northeast Oklahoma
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Mike in A-town Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Donnie H
I've not but know a lot that does.
If you get on accurate shooter, I'm sure its been
talked about alot.


Thanks Donnie. That's probably one of the places I saw it discussed.

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Fireforming brass [Re: Mike in A-town] #7145314
01/19/21 08:12 PM
01/19/21 08:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 63
idaho
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skunkscent99 Offline
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idaho
Have used it in a few wildcats and worked fine just messy. I ran a dry patch every 10 rounds or so to clean out any leftover cereal

Re: Fireforming brass [Re: Mike in A-town] #7145535
01/19/21 10:11 PM
01/19/21 10:11 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 6,749
Piney va. soon be 19
cotton Offline
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Piney va. soon be 19
if you're just forming new brass of the same cal. to fit your rifle, just load em and shoot em.


John 3/16

ifin your gonna be dumb ya gotta be tough
Proud testosterone charged redneck
www.cotton45c.com
Re: Fireforming brass [Re: Mike in A-town] #7145561
01/19/21 10:29 PM
01/19/21 10:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 227
Southern Ohio
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Ohiowoodchuck Offline
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Southern Ohio
Are you working up a wildcat with a spec neck diameter or just a stock rifle. Itís not really needed on a stock rifle. You would be better off shooting the stock brass a few times and let it expand to the chamber. Thatís assuming itís a stock rifle.


ďIf there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace.Ē
ó Thomas Paine
Re: Fireforming brass [Re: Mike in A-town] #7145572
01/19/21 10:37 PM
01/19/21 10:37 PM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 4,015
western mn
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bucksnbears Offline
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No need to for a stock clambering.
Mostly used when blowing out the shoulder (Ackley).


swampgas chili and schmidt beer makes for a deadly combo

You have to remember that 1 out of 3 Democratic Voters is just as dumb as the other two.
Re: Fireforming brass [Re: Mike in A-town] #7145582
01/19/21 10:43 PM
01/19/21 10:43 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 6,839
Asheville, NC
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charles Online content
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I used Red Dot and stuffed the cartridge neck tight with Kleenex tissue. I was form 280AI.

The powder was probably 25 years old.

Last edited by charles; 01/19/21 10:44 PM.
Re: Fireforming brass [Re: bucksnbears] #7145586
01/19/21 10:46 PM
01/19/21 10:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,656
Northeast Oklahoma
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Mike in A-town Offline OP
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Mike in A-town  Offline OP
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Northeast Oklahoma
Originally Posted by Ohiowoodchuck
Are you working up a wildcat with a spec neck diameter or just a stock rifle. Itís not really needed on a stock rifle. You would be better off shooting the stock brass a few times and let it expand to the chamber. Thatís assuming itís a stock rifle.


Originally Posted by bucksnbears
No need to for a stock clambering.
Mostly used when blowing out the shoulder (Ackley).


You guys are right. I just like to eke out as much accuracy as I can from the get-go... Right now it's hard to burn up a pound of rifle powder and a box of bullets just to stretch brass to where it's the most accurate. If I knew I could go get the components I wanted anytime I needed them I wouldn't worry about it.

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Fireforming brass [Re: Mike in A-town] #7145609
01/19/21 10:59 PM
01/19/21 10:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 198
SD
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Tray Online content
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SD
Mike Iím not a expert on this but Iíve seen it done and Iíve never seen anyone do it with bullets. Usually just a small piece of tissue pushed in the end of the case. I would be afraid with the light charges used in fire forming your bullet may not exit the barrel.

Re: Fireforming brass [Re: Mike in A-town] #7145614
01/19/21 11:01 PM
01/19/21 11:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,371
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline
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Green County Wisconsin
there is info on this on Castboolits gunloads , I recall reading it there

found some info on it http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?318234-fillers-for-fire-forming

Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 01/19/21 11:03 PM.

America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Fireforming brass [Re: Mike in A-town] #7145619
01/19/21 11:05 PM
01/19/21 11:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 227
Southern Ohio
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Ohiowoodchuck Offline
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Southern Ohio


Originally Posted by bucksnbears
No need to for a stock clambering.
Mostly used when blowing out the shoulder (Ackley).


You guys are right. I just like to eke out as much accuracy as I can from the get-go... Right now it's hard to burn up a pound of rifle powder and a box of bullets just to stretch brass to where it's the most accurate. If I knew I could go get the components I wanted anytime I needed them I wouldn't worry about it.

Mike
[/quote]
I know, I do it all time with .220 Russian brass for a .6ppc rifle. Iím just saying I donít believe youíll see that much improvement in a hunting rifle. I would just load them up and shoot them as needed, then youíll get to the point where they will be hard to chamber. Thatís when I typically bump the shoulder back about .0001. I use bullseye to fire form. Load it about 3/4 to 7/8 full and pack a piece of tissue paper in it with a Allen wrench. Do one and let the rifle set for 10-15 minutes. Pistol powder is very corrosive and burns hotter. It wonít take very many shots to erode a barrel unless you let it cool.


ďIf there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace.Ē
ó Thomas Paine
Re: Fireforming brass [Re: bucksnbears] #7145691
01/20/21 12:02 AM
01/20/21 12:02 AM
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Posts: 16,241
N.W. Iowa
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Tactical.20 Offline
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Originally Posted by bucksnbears
No need to for a stock clambering.
Mostly used when blowing out the shoulder (Ackley).

Yup, I use .223 casings to make tactical.20 casings, fire forming is to make the new shoulder formed to exact measurement.
I use about 3/4 a load to fire form

Re: Fireforming brass [Re: Mike in A-town] #7145722
01/20/21 12:55 AM
01/20/21 12:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 7,648
Nebraska, Dawson County
chas3457 Offline
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Anybody fire form .348 Win to .450 Alaskan ? Got a set of custom dies with a long taper expander ball and some new, unfired .348 brass. Got the rifle and dies from my brother and not sure his methods are entirely kosher.

The plan is to size the necks to .458 with the die and 'shoot' the shoulders out. I'm thinking annealing before fire forming, but before opening the necks, to avoid crushing the cases.


Some helpful advice as to 'load' would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks in advance. smile



Charlie


Old age and treachery will always overcome youth and enthusiasm.

NRA Life Member ~ GOA Member ~ NFOA Member ~ UNMLA Member
Re: Fireforming brass [Re: Ohiowoodchuck] #7145772
01/20/21 05:09 AM
01/20/21 05:09 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,656
Northeast Oklahoma
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Mike in A-town Offline OP
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Originally Posted by Ohiowoodchuck
I know, I do it all time with .220 Russian brass for a .6ppc rifle. Iím just saying I donít believe youíll see that much improvement in a hunting rifle. I would just load them up and shoot them as needed, then youíll get to the point where they will be hard to chamber. Thatís when I typically bump the shoulder back about .0001. I use bullseye to fire form. Load it about 3/4 to 7/8 full and pack a piece of tissue paper in it with a Allen wrench. Do one and let the rifle set for 10-15 minutes. Pistol powder is very corrosive and burns hotter. It wonít take very many shots to erode a barrel unless you let it cool.


Not a hunting rifle per se... It's a 300 Win Mag I bought for long distance shooting. I don't compete in matches or anything like that. I just enjoy the challenge of reaching out as far as I can... I bought the gun from my buddy for the sole purpose of ringing steel at 1000. And so far the biggest challenge is finding a suitable spot to safely shoot at 1000 that's close to the house.

My typical procedure is to measure new brass to the datum line on the shoulder, fire, then measure again. Then I bump the shoulder back .001-.002 with my FL sizing die, trim if necessary, chamfer, anneal, prime, charge, seat bullets to .020 off the lands, shoot... Rinse, repeat.

I haven't made the leap to turning necks... Yet. But I'm looking at it.

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: Fireforming brass [Re: Mike in A-town] #7145937
01/20/21 08:02 AM
01/20/21 08:02 AM
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Posts: 2,564
meadowview, Virginia
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EdP Offline
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Mike, my goals are very similar. I've got a couple of new (to me) rifles and have been thinking about fire forming with reduced loads for exactly the reasons you described. Usually I would just burn the powder and bullets and not worry about it, but now I have no idea when I will be able to replace them.

With regard to neck turning, I tried it and found it to be of no benefit to me. Also, after getting the tools and giving it a try, I read that unless you have a very tight chamber (like a custom bench rest chamber), neck turning can actually be detrimental to accuracy because you have increased the potential for reduced concentricity between bullet and barrel.

Re: Fireforming brass [Re: Mike in A-town] #7145994
01/20/21 08:40 AM
01/20/21 08:40 AM
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Posts: 52
Ashtabula Ohio
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AmmoRat Offline
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Ashtabula Ohio
There's a book called Handloaders Manual of Cartridge Conversions. I picked one up a few years back for less than $10 at Ollie's. It has a ton of cartridge reforming conversions for standard, metric and obsolete cartridges. One of the best books and IMO a must have for making cartridges when you cant find brass for some of these old guns.

Re: Fireforming brass [Re: Mike in A-town] #7146060
01/20/21 08:53 AM
01/20/21 08:53 AM
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ontario canada
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Knappett Offline
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ontario canada
Red dot and cream of wheat works. We did it when turning 30 06 to 338 ai. I think 10grains of red dot but I xant remember.....

Re: Fireforming brass [Re: Mike in A-town] #7146114
01/20/21 09:27 AM
01/20/21 09:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 227
Southern Ohio
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Ohiowoodchuck Offline
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Not a hunting rifle per se... It's a 300 Win Mag I bought for long distance shooting. I don't compete in matches or anything like that. I just enjoy the challenge of reaching out as far as I can... I bought the gun from my buddy for the sole purpose of ringing steel at 1000. And so far the biggest challenge is finding a suitable spot to safely shoot at 1000 that's close to the house.

My typical procedure is to measure new brass to the datum line on the shoulder, fire, then measure again. Then I bump the shoulder back .001-.002 with my FL sizing die, trim if necessary, chamfer, anneal, prime, charge, seat bullets to .020 off the lands, shoot... Rinse, repeat.

I haven't made the leap to turning necks... Yet. But I'm looking at it.

Mike


[/quote]
You are going to have to use a lot of powder and bullets to find what will group the best. I usually start at a certain grain and load 3 at that then add .2 grains and load 3 at that and so on. I keep doing this until I get a bunch loaded and go to the range and see where it groups the best at. I would just do a light cut if your wanting to turn the necks. This will tru up the neck and make bullet seating easier. I would recommend a custom bullet seating die and a arbor press from LE Wilson.

Last edited by Ohiowoodchuck; 01/20/21 10:23 AM.

ďIf there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my child may have peace.Ē
ó Thomas Paine
Re: Fireforming brass [Re: Mike in A-town] #7146148
01/20/21 09:47 AM
01/20/21 09:47 AM
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N. Dakota
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I have used the Cream of Wheat for many yrs. I form 22-6MM AI and 6MM AI and 6 BRX. I have never had a problem with COW left in the barrel. In fact I run it thru all my rifles to clean them. You will never have a more clean barrel than with COW. I ran 12 gr of Red Dot then fill with COW and push the neck into a bar of soap. I would fire 8 to 10 rds and let the barrel cool off, and then start shooting again.

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