What do you think is the most foot friendly fox trap, that will also hold coyotes?

MB450

The 450 will also hold cats too.

Thanks guys, offset, closed jaw, or the fox model?

Thanks guys, offset, closed jaw, or the fox model?

Closed jaws.

If your State allows closed I’d go closed. May just be me, but less damage with closed.

I have to use offset and I've noticed that to be true with fox. Most of mine are grey fox around here and have caught them in MB 450, 550 and Bridger #2 dogless all offset the MB do better with the wider jaw face but they often damage the foot. Wouldn't go offset unless you have to and if so use thicker jawed traps.

Not just you....

Mb 550 and bridger 1.65 and four coiled bridger 1.75

Would'nt the extra springs increase damage?

If you don't have the $$$ for the 450

When I trapped fox for the live market I used Duke 1.75s with both Inside and out side lams. Inside lams are more important that outside lams.

Any 1 3/4 trap with heavy jaws i'm partial to the northwoods cause i have a bunch and the've been working for a long time No grays here

Back when I trapped foxes in the late 80’s I got by with Victor 1 1/2 coilspring. That would not be a option today with all the coyotes we have now. I use #3 Victor Montgomery 2 coil now and I have released a few foxes over the years with no problems.

No, prevents slippage...feet sliding back and forth.

There are times when over powered traps will cause foot damage. It's just not apparent to the trapper because they are killing that animal and skinning It.

PM me if you want to.

I spoke with Tim Caven several times, when I was starting possible live market trapping, back when he was coming to Georgia and doing it with Bob Young.
This was BEFORE he had the MB line of traps.
He and Bob had to keep fox AND yote feet in perfect shape to sell to that market.
They were using fully modified Victor 1.5's reg jaw and Sleepy Creek 1.75's offset jaws...thus started my trap modification biz for the NC boys round here.

I can tell you with certainty an MB550 2 coil offset will cause foot damage...close to 80% of the time. These are greys and not reds. Regular jaws not so much. Go down a little to the 450 regular jaw and none so far.

Same here.... except went with the MB550's recently.

Mb550 best all around trap produced.

I caught a lot of fox in MB
450 and 550. Both have been good and very little foot damage if any at all. On the other hand I have some Montana #3 dogless that will be for sale

Y’all catching reds or greys in those 550’s?

I have caught reds in mine and only one grey. Most greys I have caught have been in 450s as I usually have them set targeting greys in specific areas.

I catch very few reds, but all can be released foot damage free with the 550’s. Greys can’t be, unless I’m doing something wrong. I did go with some 450’s this year and will probably get more. They seem to do real well on the smaller predators and hold cats and coyotes as well.

Wanna Be. You are NOT doing anything wrong with. The greys. Caught 1 today. Was their before sunrise. His foot looked BAD. He should have been dispatched. BUT in Alabama i have to release them after Feb 28 th. Its a Stupid law. But thats Alabama for you

Imo the best trap for fox would be the smallest and lightest trap you can get then laminate Canadian style power it up with 4 coil and put a 5/32 off set to stop paw slide but keep from breaking bones. You may have to adjust the offset a little one way or the other.
Or you could find out what Phil uses when he catches over 1000 a year cause I'm pretty sure he's got it down to a science. Personally i would go with Phil's pick.

Phil 's pick is believe it or not is victor 2 offset I believe no idea about live market or Grey's. But a a victor 2offset from what I here.
But I would PM him and just ask.

And on a side note back foot catches are less than desirable imo.

There's a lot of good info in here. I would look to the live market guys as their catch has to be healthy.

That's interesting, i wonder what the gap is on that victor. I'm guessing he uses the #2 for a balance between larger kill area and minimal foot damage.
With that said that #2 might not be best choice if your looking for the least amount of damage.
I know for me a 3/16 offset is perfect for coyotes thats why i would go 5/32 for a fox foot. 5/32 is half way between 3/16 and 1/8 in case anyone was wondering.
Checking your traps early early would probably help the most imo.

Who is phil?

I bet if that 550 was just a little narrower then I wouldn’t have an issue. But, since I’m incorporating regular jaws now I see less damage. Even my ole possums are loving life, lol. Something about that larger offset allows for movement I guess. Of course with offset they’re supposed to be superior with the higher up catch, but it just ain’t happening for me. Those little 450’s are a nice little package as well. Caught a big ole Tom in one and was very pleased. Especially since I believe he set it off the night before by trying to rub on the rock I had for backing.

That pic always amazes me, holy cow! Thanks for putting it up.

The 550 is a very good trap, imo a better coyote trap than for fox especially the offset being a little wide to hold a foxes foot with no sliding. The 450 i assume would be much better.
Wb are you referring to the higher lockup of the levers?

I wonder what traps the Leggets used? And Tracy T. , he has huge catches of grey fox? Maybe Laz will see this and chime in.

There are no grey fox friendly traps.

Was waiting for someone to say that......

The little devil's do fight so hard they hurt themselves. But i do commend the op and any others for reaching out to help keep the damage to a minimum. Ya gotta appreciate that, don't ya?

Yes...higher lockup’s.
And true about Greys, those are some feisty little devils!

So you didn't get good lockups sometimes with the 550s? Asking because i never used that trap much.

Get great lockups. Just foot damage with offsets. Not that it matters because I don’t live sell, but I have had chew outs with them. Reds are bigger and no issues, but we don’t have a lot of them so maybe that’s not a fair comparison. And Reds don’t seem to be as hyper as Greys are either.

The leggetts started out running all victor 1.5s, and kept a pile of victor 2's on hand in case coyotes showed up, but in later years they switched entirely to victor 1.75's, offset, 2 coiled. I was fortunate enough to spend a weekend trapping with ron leggett in 2004, unfortunately after pete had passed, talk about a wealth of knowledge

I caught fox and coyotes before it but after watching their videos I caught a lot more. Terrific teachers. I can't recall what year I first watched their videos, seems like it must of been around 1995-2000???

Wow, your a lucky guy to be able to do that. What
great memories that would make. They must of had a good reason to switch over to offsets. Thanks for posting that info, that is some great stuff. Ok Laz your turn.

Hey beav, you seein this. Both Phil Brown and the Leggets saw a need to use offsets. I wonder why that was, got any ideas?

Maybe they needed to according to the law.
And as far as I know none of them trapped for the live market. And If they did It because of lock up I don't see where 3 /16ths of a Inch offset on a small footed critter like a fox would make much of a difference In holding power.

If you think you need offsets for what ever reason that's what you should do. I for one don't believe I ever lost a critter do to what kind of jaw configuration I was using.

Phil's fox trap is a regular jaw vic #2, his yote/cat traps are offset vic #2 baseplates with heavy chain and welded j hooks. He passed one of each around at the FTA in virginia for the crowd to look at.

Leggetts trapped live market coyotes in TX for a while. They started out using their fox traps, but were having misses and pull outs. They settled on the vic 1.75 offset, but grinded a little on the jaws where the levers ride to increase lock up.

Yes who knows what the circumstances or the reason they did what they did. I am wondering since they ran such a long line they weren't getting to a lot of their fox until later in the day and were noticing more damage. I know Ogorman talked about a lot studies showed that offsets ( with the right amount of gap for the target animal) were less damaging. To me it's not so much about lock up as it is bone breakage.

I know on my Texas line i have an extremely low amount of damage and my traps are all 4 coiled and strong with 3/16 offset Canadian jawed. I don't get to a lot of my coyotes until later in the day.

Ive said before, take a pencil for instance snap an offset on it, then do the same on a closed jaw trap, smashed. I realize its not a foot or leg bone but i wonder when a animal has broken bones, did the trap do that or did they do that to themselves?

We will have agree to disagree on the offset issue. And just to be clear i realize there is know way to get to zero damage but I think we should at least try to minimize it.
Maybe a shock spring would help some also.

i dont catch a lot of fox but the ones i do are usually caught on the shin so if your thinking of broken bones i might say a two coiled #3 bridger offset with mods may be the answer yes its over kill but will help stop ankle and toe catches as the jaw is up past the foot really depends on what the intentions are of after catch use and before i get the #3 is not a fox trap remember the question was foot friendly

No way i would use that big of a trap for fox.

I believe there are 2 main issues we see on a foot/lower leg. That is broken skin, broken bones or both. Imo we can help eliminate the broken skin with lamination and no sharp edges period.

We can help eliminate broken bones with the RIGHT offset. On tip of that i feel keeping the trap as light as possible to help keep the animal from injuring themselves more plus a shock spring.

I think the above would go a long way in stopping any visible and internal damage to a fox. With that said there are still variables that will still be a head scratcher.

Well I'm doubting a red fox or a grey fox would be able to compress a shock spring. And I don't see where a shock spring In a short chain set up would be of much use on any critter.

wetdog, The Beav has added variety to the thread, He seems very knowledgeable. The idea of this thread was to learn everyone's opinion on a good trap,I didn't mean for it to be a debate on offset vs closed jaws, I simply wanted to know what you think is the most foot friendly fox trap. The Beav has the right to his own opinion, and you have the right to yours. Thank you both for sharing, I am very appreciative of everyone's input on this thread.

Duke

That cage trap is one I could not make happen
Climb on it, pee on it, sniff it.
but not go in it.
I'm sure I need the newest and bestest lol.

Sooo many makes and models these days
you are going to have to rely on multiple opinions.

I've used shock springs on my fox traps and I've used them when coyotes started showing up. And I see no difference In the amount of pullouts or foot damage when using them over a set up with out them. So I don't use them.
But If you feel you need for them then go for It.

It's the same with offset jaws. If you think they allow circulation to the foot so be It. But I don't see It happening. Those wide cast jaw faces are great but they don't hold as good as a regular squared off jaw face. And yes the offset will allow the spring levers to come up a bit higher on the jaws but If the offset Is 3/16ths does that make that much of a difference In lock up? Then of coarse If you have any derbies caught between the jaw hinges that 3/16ths offset becomes about a 1/2" offset and there goes any chance of something being caught.

But If you feel you need to reinvent the trap so be It.

Are you referring to me when you talk of circulation? If you are i never mentioned it and don't buy into the circulation thing. I have no idea where that came from. My guess it was either a little white lie or enough people actually believed it maybe. Not me

As far as the rest, i have no where you come up with some of this stuff. Most of us use sifters and i know for myself anyway i am very careful about getting any debris that i think will cause a catch problem thrown back away from the set. Dosen't take long to figure that out, or it shouldn't any way. Stuff does stil happen but rarely.

Not sure if rubber jaw traps were mentioned yet, if so i apologize for missing that. Those could be an option.

No I wasn't referring to you. I was just making a generic comment.

I have used rubber jawed traps and I feel like the rubber conforms to the foot and is more certain to cut off any circulation. And of coarse rubber Is fairly slippery and you may get more foot movement before the foot begins to swell. And of course rubber doesn't stand up well to any chewing or trap cleaning. And I'm betting It also absorbs odors.

Canadian jawed Wolf Creek #1.5s, or Duke #1.5 rubber jaw!

I've seen more damage from a chain link getting hooked on a spring pin than anything else. It's not good when that happens. Keep your spring pins short.

Author trapper, do you have trouble holding coyotes in the 1.5s?

Back in the day I did a lot of tinkering with offsets with the old Monty 1.5s round jaws to make them a more efficient dry coon trap and to treat red and grey foxes paws better. Long story short 1/8th inch performed best on all species with 14 inches of chain to the anchor with 3 universal swivels. When coyotes showed up I added lams, and had JC make less powerful Lightning springs. They held coyotes till the cows came home. But the misses were off the chart but, it was very paw friendly to foxes. Today if I was going to trap live market fox my trap of choice would be the MB450 closed jaw and I would probably do a bit of grinding to some to compare. Cast steel files and grinds easy.... Wide smooth jaws with ample power to keep the paw in place without tendon damage is not easy on every fox that steps on the pan. For all species 3/16th performs best for fur trapping, with the exception of wolves from what I gather.

Just my 2 cents

I don't trap foxes, so I haven't weighed in here. But since it seems to be devolving into a closed jaw vs. offset argument I'll put in my two cents. Closed jaws are better for preventing movement inside the jaws. Great on a 24 hour check. But they do cut circulation down so that feet go to sleep, and on a longer check, especially in cold climates they can cause freezing of feet and or chewing of feet. Then offsets are better. It is a proven scientific fact that jaws with teeth are actually the most humane on larger canines, this is why they were used to live trap and transplant wolves. But they look cruel and even in the few states where they are legal on dry ground I wouldn't suggest ever setting them were a dog might possibly show up or were anybody might see them.

Beav and i are friends and we give each other jabs at times and i can see where to an untrained eye it may look different. But trust me we are just messing with each other. Sorry if it kept folks from adding to this thread and or give the op heart burn it was not our intention.
I can assure you what we wish for in the end is to not turn a 4 legged critter into a 3 legged critter.

First off I apologize to you Beav, I was havin a bad morning.
I was short with everyone today. No excuse.
To the OP. I like Bridger1.75 with outside lams and I grind a 1/8" offset after I lam the trap. I remove the baseplate on the traps I set in the woods for grays, a little lighter. And when it comes to grays I try to target backfoot catches. Most of the damage on a gray in a heavy trap can't be seen until it is skinned. Just my observations
And I believe chain setup and attachment are a very important variable to consider.
And a 1.75 will hold a coyote but the pans and dogs leave something to be desired.
I don't want any foot damage, I skin to claws on everything I can.
I don't post often on these threads because I'm still trying to find my perfect trap. And I hope I never find it.

P.S.
Beav I do want to reinvent the trap. Every single day I'm breathin

Most of the damage on a gray in a heavy trap can't be seen until it is skinned. ..............
That has not been my experience.The best trap s I've ever used around grey Fox were either stock 11/2 coils or the soft catch in the same size.The soft catch treated them very well but greys,unlike reds,like to chew on the padding.Keep in mind I've never used laminated 11/2 coils.1.75's and No.2's did not treat them well at all.Damage could be excessive.We never had greys here,when they arrived they were everywhere.After a few years they disappeared,apparently from distemper so their scarce to non existent now,but if they were to make comeback I'd try the 450 or the 550 rubber jaw.

Caught and held 4 coyotes in 1.5s this season, no problem.

Nice pics Author trapper, great job. You been learning some new sets down there?