No Profanity *** No Flaming *** No Advertising *** No Anti Trappers *** No Politics
No Non-Target Catches *** No Links to Anti-trapping Sites *** No Avoiding Profanity Filter


Home~Trap Talk~ADC Forum~Trap Shed~Wilderness Trapping~International Trappers~Fur Handling

Auction Forum~Trapper Tips~Links~Gallery~Basic Sets~Convention Calendar~Chat~ Trap Collecting Forum

Trapper's Humor~Strictly Trapping~Fur Buyers Directory~Mugshots~Fur Sale Directory~Wildcrafting~The Pen and Quill

Trapper's Tales~Words From The Past~Legends~Archives~Kids Forum~Lure Formulators Forum~ Fermenter's Forum


~~~ Dobbins' Products Catalog ~~~


Minnesota Trapline Products
Please support our sponsor for the Trappers Talk Page - Minnesota Trapline Products


Print Thread
Hop To
Page 8 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: rex123] #7241411
04/12/21 11:06 AM
04/12/21 11:06 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,722
La Vernia & Dallas TX
Mark June Offline
trapper
Mark June  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,722
La Vernia & Dallas TX
Originally Posted by rex123
The founding fathers were as varied in their beliefs as the people on this forum. Not all of the same mind or beliefs.


This statement would be true of anyone or any group in human history. Is there a take-a-way?


Dallas Theological Seminary
https://www.dts.edu
https://www.markjuneslures.com/
Predator Trapping Academy Host



Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: James] #7241423
04/12/21 11:19 AM
04/12/21 11:19 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,858
Northeast Oklahoma
M
Mike in A-town Offline
trapper
Mike in A-town  Offline
trapper
M

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 8,858
Northeast Oklahoma
Originally Posted by James
Mike, your expertise is so glaringly obvious that you should go read the Heller decision and tell us what it means.

Jim


Is the right to keep and bear arms an individual or collective right?

If you say a collective right then you have to admit that the framers just up and decided to include a collective right amidst a big long list of individual rights... Seems legit.

Breyer's dissent is a stretch as well... There are thousands of examples of rifles, smoothbore fowlers/muskets, and pistols that were held privately in homes... not stored in militia lockers awaiting the time when they were needed. The requirements for serving in the "well regulated" militia are pretty mild... Be of appropriate age and physical constitution, OWN an appropriate rifle/smoothbore and keep enough powder/shot on hand to outfit that weapon for a predetermined number of shots... And I have yet to find a requirement for the weapons of militia members to be capable of accepting a bayonet. That standard alone would differentiate a civilian firearm from a "weapon of war" in that day and age.

As far as the 2A not covering weapons of war... What else are you going to outfit a militia with?

On a somewhat related note... History seems to repeat itself. George III was mentally deficient as well. He should've been locked up, not propped up on a throne. Sound familiar?

Mike


One man with a gun may control 100 others who have none.

Vladimir Lenin
Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7241427
04/12/21 11:27 AM
04/12/21 11:27 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,957
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
trapper
Posco  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,957
Maine, Aroostook
FEDERALIST NO. 2

It has often given me pleasure to observe that independent America was not composed of detached and distant territories, but that one connected, fertile, widespreading country was the portion of our western sons of liberty. Providence has in a particular manner blessed it with a variety of soils and productions, and watered it with innumerable streams, for the delight and accommodation of its inhabitants. A succession of navigable waters forms a kind of chain round its borders, as if to bind it together; while the most noble rivers in the world, running at convenient distances, present them with highways for the easy communication of friendly aids, and the mutual transportation and exchange of their various commodities.

With equal pleasure I have as often taken notice that Providence has been pleased to give this one connected country to one united people--a people descended from the same ancestors, speaking the same language, professing the same religion, attached to the same principles of government, very similar in their manners and customs, and who, by their joint counsels, arms, and efforts, fighting side by side throughout a long and bloody war, have nobly established general liberty and independence.

This convention composed of men who possessed the confidence of the people, and many of whom had become highly distinguished by their patriotism, virtue and wisdom, in times which tried the minds and hearts of men, undertook the arduous task. In the mild season of peace, with minds unoccupied by other subjects, they passed many months in cool, uninterrupted, and daily consultation; and finally, without having been awed by power, or influenced by any passions except love for their country, they presented and recommended to the people the plan produced by their joint and very unanimous councils.

Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7241431
04/12/21 11:33 AM
04/12/21 11:33 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,722
La Vernia & Dallas TX
Mark June Offline
trapper
Mark June  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,722
La Vernia & Dallas TX
Good post Posco.

Anyone who has written literary works knows that the author always starts the work with the key premise you want people to know;

It has often given me pleasure to observe that independent America was not composed of detached and distant territories

And you end the literary piece the same way.... your key summary you want readers to know;

the plan produced by their joint and very unanimous councils

Being a writer myself, the Federalist is a pleasure to read.

Blessings,
Mark


Dallas Theological Seminary
https://www.dts.edu
https://www.markjuneslures.com/
Predator Trapping Academy Host



Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7241433
04/12/21 11:45 AM
04/12/21 11:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,933
Nevada
N
nvwrangler Offline
trapper
nvwrangler  Offline
trapper
N

Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,933
Nevada
My thinking on the wording of the 2nd has always been that the way its worded the writers clearly wanted the right to bear arms for the individual . This is evident by the placing of the comma after the part about militias in the final draft ratified by congress, then they use the phrase " the right of the people" the only time they used the word people they specifically meant the individual citizen.

Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: Mark June] #7241436
04/12/21 11:53 AM
04/12/21 11:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,957
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
trapper
Posco  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,957
Maine, Aroostook
Originally Posted by Mark June
Good post Posco.

Blessings,
Mark

Thanks, Mark.

I'm of a suspicion most of us know little about the documents we refer or allude to, our constitution being one of them. Many of us have a passing acquaintance with some portions of our important historical documents but they tend to be superficial and narrow in scope. I've had copies of our constitution, the Federalist Papers, Thomas Paine's Common Sense, Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations, Shakespeare's complete works and the Bible for years and I've made an effort to benefit from them. Other than the manual for my tractor, I've never felt the need to read much else.

Last edited by Posco; 04/12/21 11:55 AM.
Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7241441
04/12/21 12:04 PM
04/12/21 12:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,722
La Vernia & Dallas TX
Mark June Offline
trapper
Mark June  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,722
La Vernia & Dallas TX
I'd argue, we'd be a much different people group, us Americans, if more people took your literary approach.
Those days are in the rear view mirror so we work with what... "we got." Literally.

Blessings,
Mark


Dallas Theological Seminary
https://www.dts.edu
https://www.markjuneslures.com/
Predator Trapping Academy Host



Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7241448
04/12/21 12:16 PM
04/12/21 12:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,344
KY.usa
rex123 Offline
trapper
rex123  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,344
KY.usa
The take away is some people on here act like they were the apostle's and were all followers of some divine light. When in reality they were just like the people on here. They did the best they could and made blunders like everyone.

Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: rex123] #7241453
04/12/21 12:21 PM
04/12/21 12:21 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,957
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
trapper
Posco  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,957
Maine, Aroostook
Originally Posted by rex123
The take away is some people on here act like they were the apostle's and were all followers of some divine light. When in reality they were just like the people on here. They did the best they could and made blunders like everyone.

I disagree. Providence brought that group of men together to craft one of the finest documents ever written by man.

Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7241473
04/12/21 12:50 PM
04/12/21 12:50 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,344
KY.usa
rex123 Offline
trapper
rex123  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,344
KY.usa
Using that logic you would have to say providence put Biden in the white house? If not who?

Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: rex123] #7241476
04/12/21 12:57 PM
04/12/21 12:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,957
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
trapper
Posco  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,957
Maine, Aroostook
Originally Posted by rex123
Using that logic you would have to say providence put Biden in the white house? If not who?

As a judgement, yes.

Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7241503
04/12/21 01:41 PM
04/12/21 01:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,806
North East Kansas
Marty Offline
trapper
Marty  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,806
North East Kansas
I am an apostle of my divine rights.....that's for sure.


"Live Free or Die..."
Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7241536
04/12/21 02:36 PM
04/12/21 02:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,722
La Vernia & Dallas TX
Mark June Offline
trapper
Mark June  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,722
La Vernia & Dallas TX
I was just asking an internet Q rex. You submitted a statement that is subjective, only has "sure" as an afterthought, and I was just wondering what you meant?
No one on this site, or another other has looked into the eyes of our Lord, so no Apostles here. Peter, Paul, John and the other Apostles did take the commissioned Gospel message to Jerusalem, Judea, Samaria, and all the nations beyond any human ability... as we speak of Apostles today and they've been dust for almost 2,000 years. No legacy like it and I, perhaps like Posco, am inclined to ponder divine providence in the crafting of this nation. How else did a bunch of colonials defeat the greatest nation on earth?

Funny thing how all the great nations in world history do tumble. All of 'em. Dollar to a donut says nobody in them thought they would.

Blessings,
Mark


Dallas Theological Seminary
https://www.dts.edu
https://www.markjuneslures.com/
Predator Trapping Academy Host



Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7241569
04/12/21 03:39 PM
04/12/21 03:39 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,344
KY.usa
rex123 Offline
trapper
rex123  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,344
KY.usa
I don't understand your post I used sure where in my post? Also I was referring to the way some people on here seem to regard the founding fathers.

Last edited by rex123; 04/12/21 03:44 PM.
Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: rex123] #7241629
04/12/21 05:15 PM
04/12/21 05:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,957
Maine, Aroostook
Posco Offline
trapper
Posco  Offline
trapper

Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,957
Maine, Aroostook
Originally Posted by rex123
Also I was referring to the way some people on here seem to regard the founding fathers.


Read something written by Nancy Pelosi and then read something written by John Jay.

Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7241646
04/12/21 05:35 PM
04/12/21 05:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,722
La Vernia & Dallas TX
Mark June Offline
trapper
Mark June  Offline
trapper

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 4,722
La Vernia & Dallas TX
Posco, that ^^^^ post was quite good.
Some may not grasp the analogy however. Reading comprehension hasn't been in vogue for quite some time now wink


Dallas Theological Seminary
https://www.dts.edu
https://www.markjuneslures.com/
Predator Trapping Academy Host



Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: jtg] #7241678
04/12/21 06:05 PM
04/12/21 06:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,211
Anchorage, Alaska
J
James Offline
"Minka"
James  Offline
"Minka"
J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,211
Anchorage, Alaska
Originally Posted by jtg
Ray describes where we are and where we are going in chapter 8 and 9. James, I would be interested to know your thoughts on the following link:

https://www.principles.com/the-changing-world-order/#chapter8


That''s a long article. What point or part are you interested in?

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7241683
04/12/21 06:17 PM
04/12/21 06:17 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,211
Anchorage, Alaska
J
James Offline
"Minka"
James  Offline
"Minka"
J

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,211
Anchorage, Alaska
So far I've been arguing the Bill of Rights are not absolute. Beyond finding an individual Second Amendment right, the Supreme Court in the Heller case applied strict scrutiny versus rational basis analysis to strike down a Washington DC ban on handguns.

If circumstances had been different, the Court might have upheld the same law. If the DC law had only banned firearms within courthouses and other public buildings, I suspect the Court would have upheld the law.

So far I've only argued that the first ten amendments to the Constitution are not absolute. Biden's right in that statement.

But the amendments have always been broadly construed in accordance with their purpose. That includes the Second Amendment, in my view.

What I'm saying is that the Second Amendment should be construed broadly in favor of its purpose, to protect the right to keep and bear arms.

Jim


Forum Infidel since 2001

"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7241711
04/12/21 06:56 PM
04/12/21 06:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,344
KY.usa
rex123 Offline
trapper
rex123  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 2,344
KY.usa
Some how John Jay and Nancy Pelosi are in this . Okay when it was first written he didn't support the constitution not until later and she is just sad. But if you want to compare what modern statesmen does compare to him?

Re: No Amendment is Absolute. [Re: flash] #7241758
04/12/21 07:38 PM
04/12/21 07:38 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,806
North East Kansas
Marty Offline
trapper
Marty  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 13,806
North East Kansas
The first has already been infringed upon if your a conservative and want to talk about conservatism....if you want to talk about blm you can talk all you want to talk...if they start to confiscate firearms you can bet the conservatives will be the first people they visit..all that is about limiting the oppositions ability to fight back....either thru speech or any other means, it is already being done.

These people want to keep the power forever......and they just may be able to do that unless there is a violent upheaval.


"Live Free or Die..."
Page 8 of 9 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Previous Thread
Index
Next Thread