I can't imagine as a buyer bidding online for furs without any pictures. I mean if I personally knew and trusted the grader I might call up and say I need X number of Y grade beaver, but for furs like cats or wolverines where there are patterns in the fur that will be worked with, designed around, and matched to other hides? Then when you start talking about furs that are worth hundreds to sometimes thousands of dollars per pelt those lots of 25 skins become a serious gamble without inspecting. I don't blame the buyers for not forking over the dough on an internet sale.

In my mind FHA should have shipped the fur somewhere the buyers could inspect it if Ontario is being that jackbooted. Even if they had to split the sale up because whatever facility they rented wasn't as big and and couldn't hold all the fur at once, I believe they would have come out ahead by running a couple sales back to back at an inspectable facility as they would have on an internet sale. At least for the high dollar and variable furs, things like rats probably will go fine on an internet sale as long as the buyers trust the graders. One time of the buyer getting in a shipment of fur that wasn't what he expected by the grade posted and he is going to be looking elsewhere unless he can get it dirt cheap.

Where would they ship it too bearcat? Remember a few years ago the FBI issued warrants for quite a bunch of foreign buyers. Seems they were colluding (illegally) on the prices to be paid. So the auction was moved from Seattle to Canada so no one would be arrested.

That has not been very many years ago. Surely I'm not the only one who remembers that.

Yup. I remember.

So you're saying collusion is ok in Canada?

Apparently. FWIW I didnt break the story. I just read about it. Hard to believe you never read about it walleye

There is a big problem with shipping high dollar fur to someplace buyers could inspect in person.

All of Canada is closed, not just Ontario. So where would they ship the cats. US?

Bobcats are a CiTES species. That requires special permits and inspections to ship across borders. That would be one set of permits and inspections to get the cats from North Bay to say Chicago. Then another set of permits and inspections to get them back to North Bay.

If the cats sold and some of them were bought by US buyers, then it is another set of permits and inspections to get the pelts back into the US.

After the August sale, it took almost 2 months for Canadian F&W to issue permits. Having to do 2 sets of permits could take forever.

Another option - hold the better goods until buyers can travel to North Bay. Then the shippers don’t get ,paid.

FHA is stuck between a rock and a hard place. At least they are trying to sell fur.

Yup, I remember. The only person arrested was a major US broker.

The collusion took place at an FHA sale held at Seattle Fur Exchange. I was at that sale. The FBI interviewed a lot of people. The species involved was otter.

And I think it was more than “a few years ago”. Maybe like 20?

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that any collusion charges would have expired by now (as have a number of buyers). It did pretty much kill the Seattle Fur Exchange, though.

Oh I'm not saying there wouldn't be issues, Wiss Miss. I'm sure there would be, on the other hand FHA isn't making any money on furs they are holding and loosing customers over it. . . and buyers, who are looking for other places to find high dollar goods. Frankly, with no signs of Canada showing any sort of sense about Covid, I don't know if they will open up in any sort of reasonable time for FHA to sell those goods. I know if I was FHA I would be looking at having future goods like that never shipped to Canada in the first place. I'd be looking for a spot either in the US or offshore to hold future auctions and be shipping CITES furs there rather than dealing with crossing borders multiple times with any non-Canadian goods.

I suspect FHA is likely to become a primarily Canadian only auction house if they survive and either Canada doesn't relent very soon or they don't change their operating practices. If another International auction manages to get off the ground in another country I expect it to happen very quickly. A lot of people were soured over the NAFA debacle, if FHA doesn't find a way to move furs that is acceptable to both buyers and sellers, and someone else does. . . well FHA probably won't go under right away, not unless they do something supremely stupid like NAFA, but they'll certainly be downsizing.

I've made no secret of my dislike of FHA, on the other hand I agree with Wiss Miss, they are stuck between a rock and a hard place, and at least they are still trying to sell fur.

I think they are a great thing to have around, and if I felt I could trust them I would use them more. We need a little more competition in the International fur auction business in my opinion.

I don't blame FHA for restrictions imposed by the Canadian government. I do think for their business' sake they should look into working around those restrictions.

Lots of additional expenses for the options you’ve suggested. And all for 2-3 sales per year. Anything is possible.

You guys have short memories-FHA held sales in Helsinki-they went to the buyers-it was not cost effective when the market dropped.
There was no benefit-better to remain in the heart of the fur production area and sell from there.
Moving raw furs across borders is no good-too much red tape.Even for myself,moving tanned fur or manufactured articles across one border is a pain-especially with some species.Easier for me to deal right in the jurisdiction where the fur originates.More than enough customers anyway.
Better for the auction to sell in Canada and let the buyers deal with their various governments.
One of the biggest problems in the fur industry is red tape in moving goods around the world.

When will the border open up? People are getting vaccinated. About time for zombie virus fears to return to normal and borders open up. Now is the time to plan for the upcoming season. Are the buyers going to be allowed in or not? Government has sure put brakes on the economies of the world. I am getting sick of it.

With cat trapping over in CA. Severely curtailed in AZ and CO. Bag limits in UT. No nonresidents in MT or NV, good cats will be scarce. They are still popular with the ladies. Cat prices should be soaring not dropping.


poaching is about to get rampant

North Bay may be the heart of Canadian fur production but certainly NOT North American fur production.

Take a look a map!!!

It certainly is.
Especially with the guaranteed fur contracts with the northern native governments
Go over to the other FHA thread and read Saskflys link-old article but explains FHA structure and position.
One of their biggest advantages is being located at the heart of fur production.

Well I wonder if they will PT the rest of my coon for even less now. They sold a total of three coon out of the 245 I had left there. LLL

The big problem is a big government that gets their nose in everything and in everyone's business. LLL

I was actually thinking of the Helsinki sales when I wrote that. Didn't mention them because a lot of Europe is Covid crazy and I was assuming that included Finland.

Oh and Boco, better check the origin of the majority of the skins on FHA sales, pretty sure they are US not Canadian. I know of the four CITES furs commonly sold (bobcat, lynx, otter, and wolf) that two of them, bobcat and otter are vast majority US. Would be less headache to sell those furs in the US without ever exporting them if the export across country lines is so bad they would rather not deal with it. They used to do that with the Seattle Fur Exchange also.