My thoughts as well. I think dignitaries have good intentions generally.

I do most of my judging when driving in heavy traffic.

I,m about the same. I did try reading the Bible but just have trouble understanding. Just try to be the best I can. I thought the 10 commands should be good enough.

If you believe in prayer, pray before you read. The 10 commandments is a good start, but Jesus is the way. I suggest spending your reading time in the New Testament. Romans is a good one to spend time in.

What if we have made the Bible about us? Prescriptive at about every turn when in fact most of it was meant to be descriptive.
What if (I hold this view) the Bible is not a list of do's and don'ts but rather about God?
God's story of creation, human Fall, and God's Redemptive plan to restore it all to newness in the end.

Skanee3, try this. Read the Bible using only observation. Just READ God's story. Like you read any book, beginning to end. Figure out the plot, characters, and story line.
Do we stop during the reading of the Green Eggs & Ham book every sentence and "apply" it? No. We read Sam I am, and about Whoville, and such, from front to back.
Or if my wife is watching a movie and I walk in the room in the middle of it and start telling her what the movie is about... she'll tell me that I have no idea what I'm talking about because I missed most of the story plot and what the different characters have been doing to lead up to this point. She'd be spot on correct. I'd have no accuracy about any of it. I'd have opinion based on my opinion is all.

There are 3 parts of Bible "hermeneutics" as they're called: observation (reading), interpretation (what's it mean?), and application (how should I implement this?).
The American Churches are typically 90% application and while application is fine, that can steer the Bible to be about humans rather than about God. God didn't send a users manual for humans so don't read the Bible that way.

How many times have I heard someone say, "I don't read the Old Testament." Well then you miss 2/3rds of the Book and certainly a key passage about God's character (Exod. 34:6-7) and you will not understand the plot of God's Redemptive Story. So you'll interpret how you want. And most do.

What if God wanted to Inspire human writers to record what God wanted His Image Bearers (humans - made in His Image) to know about Himself >>>>> writing a book to describe God's characteristics and attributes would be "revealing." After all, us humans can only know God by what he reveals. So far that is: Creation & Jesus, His Son, & Scripture (Old and New).

We realize we read any book that has a narrative plot from page 1 until the end, true? We watch any movie from the opening scene until the end, right?
Why do we turn to chapter and verse (manmade grammatical inclusions) with the best selling narrative book of all ages? Well, oftentimes, humans figure they will craft the story of God in their image and not the other way around. Bottom line, you'll never get the biblical plot if you don't read it... and if you don't know the plot >>>>>> then you can "interpret" and "application" any way you think best.
And that's how too many teachers of the Bible teach.
It's called all over the board.

Oh and I'm Protestant, so Grace alone, through faith alone, in Christ alone. Baptism holds no salvific purpose for me because Jesus is the Christ Messiah. Not water.
And of course, I'm not Inspired. The Bible is.
My view would be the majority Protestant faith view with a slight variance amongst the Lutherans. Water can be a dunk or droplets depending on the person being baptized situation. In Hospice, we baptism bedside will full assurance the receivers heart is wide open. Most hold that the intent is the key, not the amount of H2O.
And Paul and Peter did baptize from the cup of water in Mamertine Prison. Good enough for the Apostle that brought saving Grace to the Gentiles and was beheaded for it.... good enough for us.
I will absolutely thank Paul for persevering for us sinners when I see him "in the morning."

Good discussion. Appreciate the posts!


Blessings,
Mark

Mark's comment on baptizing reminds me a of an old song. I have the whole song but don't have it on this computer. The chorus goes ; You can be baptized in every water hole, that will never ever save your soul.
You can shake and shake the preachers hand, that will never take you to the promised land.
It takes a change of heart, a change of mind, get ready brother leave this world behind.
So if you wanna go up, then you gotta go down, Brother and pray, pray, pray !

If you follow the examples in the Bible, immersion is the "proper" way to baptize. As for baptism not being necessary for salvation I would agree.

X2 but I would replace the 2nd 'the" with "a."
Mark 1:8 describes the New Covenant cleansing in miraculous terms; “I baptized you with water; but He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit.”

Regarding judging one another. The Bible makes it very clear that we are not to judge one another's heart. I cannot discern the sincerity of another's heart when it comes to salvation or their dedication. That is between them and the Lord. However, we are able to judge another's actions and confront them as needed (see Matthew 18:15-17 for instance.) The idea of "Nobody can judge me but God" is simply another way of saying "Let me sin in peace."

If I might wade into this post lightly silky, because reading context online is tricky. You might be pointing out key differences whereby the Western Church split into the Roman Catholic and Protestant faiths 500 years ago.

I'd argue, as traditional Protestants, (and some RC's also) that 1 Peter 3:21 must be taken into context. Peter's letter is written to the Jews who have been scattered far and wide away from their traditional homeland in Israel by great empires in what's called the Diaspora, who would have held to the Mosaic Law. Paul is telling them, as an Apostle of Jesus Christ, in very clear terms, that they are not saved by the Law, but rather through Jesus Christ. 1:1-9 is right to the point... with 1:9 wrapping Peter's first 8 verses in Chapter 1 with a summary statement!

This entire book is wonderfully written to help the scattered Jews understand the revealed New Covenant in Jesus the Messiah, and so the context of 1 Peter 3:21 is that as believers, the Jews are immersed (baptizmo) into salvation through the blood of Christ by the power of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 28:19 is literally written in Koine Greek: Baptizontez autous eis to onama = Baptism their in the name = Baptize in their name (in English). It's not salvific, as faith in Jesus as Lord and Savior accomplishes all. This would have been incredibly hard for a 1st century Jews to fathom as their heritage was the Old Covenant (if they even followed the Law of Moses: most did not), so Peter preaches the Gospel with no ifs, ands, or buts.

So, this passage, like many others (baptizo is found 112 times in the NT) is not a "literal" water dunk for salvation purposes. At least not in the orthodox Church. If it was, people swimming at the beach every afternoon would come up cleansed and made pure. I know plenty of people who swim all the time and they're not saved. Baptism in the 1st century was a dedication and professing of one's heart to Jesus Christ. It's still that same liturgy of ritual today.

The 1st Book of the Gospels, written of course by a Jew, is the 1st Book by design = it records the ministry of the greater Adam, and John, the baptizer, announcing to; "Make ready the way of the Lord. Make His paths straight." (Matt. 3:3). Matthew records the Kingdom of God announcement. It's here. The Fullness of Time. It's the 1st book of the NT because it announces the New Covenant plot in God's story.

After all, reading the word baptizo as a command for salvation would make John the baptizer's words in Matthew 3:11 trickier... "He (Jesus) will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire." Fire? I don't think we torch believers in faith. Of course it means judgment. Baptism by faith through Jesus by the power of the Holy Spirit = salvation. Fire = Judgment by those same Persons for those who are not saved.

Anyway, like I always say, my thoughts are not inspired. The Bible is.
But all must be read, not as a verse, but as part of God's entire story.
Context in a story isn't just important. It's crucial!

Blessings brother!
Mark

I had a grandpa that it was questionable if he ever was saved and certainly never joined a church. Wonder if I could stand in for the baptism for the dead and get his name on the church books ? That tree may have already fell ? But surely if God is a loving God, wouldn't He compromise with man and have no consistency ? After all He changed His mind once and sent the Second Adam, but maybe He didn't change things up or He would not have given the signal with the animal skin in the Garden.

Yes I make judgements every day on the choices I make, some more important than others. What pants I wear, what I eat, where I go. But I change and God does not. Not yesterday, today or forever !

That's good advice.


There is truth in that.