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Re: SD tail bounty numbers [Re: Law Dog] #7301503
07/07/21 08:56 PM
07/07/21 08:56 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,070
MN
W
walleye101 Offline
trapper
walleye101  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,070
MN
Great program any way you look at it. would freeze over before our MN governor would support something like this. But then 500K is just pocket change and would barely get his attention.

Re: SD tail bounty numbers [Re: Law Dog] #7301504
07/07/21 08:59 PM
07/07/21 08:59 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,818
Garden,Michigan
B
Buck (Zandra) Offline
trapper
Buck (Zandra)  Offline
trapper
B

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,818
Garden,Michigan
State agencies lose more than $500,000 a year in pencils pens and paper clips.I remember in the late '70's our DNR started a campaign to end Michigan's bounty sysrem,they were pa y ing out $15 for males and $20 for females on anywhere from 1200 to 1800 coyote s a year.The way they whined you would have thought they were going thru their entire budget to the public.Even back then it was a drop in the bucket.


Buck(formely known as Zandra)
Re: SD tail bounty numbers [Re: Law Dog] #7301510
07/07/21 09:08 PM
07/07/21 09:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,604
Iowa
T
trapdog1 Offline
trapper
trapdog1  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 4,604
Iowa
I wonder how many tails come from road kills. For $10 why would you not stop?

Re: SD tail bounty numbers [Re: trapdog1] #7301594
07/07/21 11:04 PM
07/07/21 11:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 27,905
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline OP
trapper
Law Dog  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 27,905
Central, SD
Originally Posted by trapdog1
I wonder how many tails come from road kills. For $10 why would you not stop?


The roads are clean now around here I made 2 hour haul today very few road killed critters on the roads if they are on the road its a sail critter.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: SD tail bounty numbers [Re: Law Dog] #7301609
07/07/21 11:37 PM
07/07/21 11:37 PM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 4,364
se South Dakota
NonPCfed Offline
trapper
NonPCfed  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 4,364
se South Dakota
They may pick up or cut off tails in Law Dog's area, a little less traveled than around here. Most of the coon and pepes I've dead on the roads here this summer have been seriously greased. I don't remember seeing a road killed grinner. Maybe something is taking them out this year.


"And God said, Let us make man in our image …and let them have dominion …and all the creatures that move along the ground".
Genesis 1:26
Re: SD tail bounty numbers [Re: Law Dog] #7301625
07/08/21 12:37 AM
07/08/21 12:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 27,905
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline OP
trapper
Law Dog  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 27,905
Central, SD
I don't think we have that many to getting road killed tails from now but I'm sure people cut tails here if they come across them. Here a poacher tosses several carcasses on the shoulder of the busy roads for all to see I have disposed of a couple piles of them when I came across them. He's not very smart the roads are on both sides of his house about the same distance away maybe that's the message he is trying to send.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: SD tail bounty numbers [Re: NonPCfed] #7301630
07/08/21 12:55 AM
07/08/21 12:55 AM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,532
Virginia
5
52Carl Offline
trapper
52Carl  Offline
trapper
5

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,532
Virginia
Originally Posted by NonPCfed
Quote
By removing 53,642 of these nest raiders, the remaining 1,000,000 nest raiders will have more available food to eat from reduced competition, leading to increased litter sizes.


52Carl- Sorry, I don't believe you. I don't see any more or any less of those predators in my part of South Dakota and my county turned in the most tails in 2019. Almost no one comes to Minnehaha County to hunt pheasants. I think everybody from Gov Kristi on down in state government knows this bounty program isn't really going to change the predator dynamics all that much, but that's how they sell it. Much harder PR-wise to say the truth that its her big DOUBLE BIRD to the antis and all the other social elite scum bags and snowflakes that South Dakota is going to support its traditional roots and the latte swelling coffee house drinkers CNN & MSNBC watching pukes can just kiss our collective ***...

What part of my statement don't you believe? I am pretty much saying that the program is a farce (as all bounty programs have always been).

Re: SD tail bounty numbers [Re: Law Dog] #7301634
07/08/21 01:22 AM
07/08/21 01:22 AM
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 170
CO
R
Ringneck1 Offline
trapper
Ringneck1  Offline
trapper
R

Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 170
CO
Look I've got a ton of respect for Gov Noem. I would trade our idiot for her in a quick minute. But the bounty program is pure political expediency. Worse there is no scientific way to determine the relative success or failure. At least Delta did a critical analysis of their work. This will end exactly like this thread is going, the trapper folk think its great, the state bios discount predator work, and the game birds lose. No politician is perfect at least she got some people out trapping, but its not gonna do much for game birds.

Having spent time hunting in as many as 5 states in a given season I don't feel like I am going out on a limb by saying the reason pheasants are down is because the large blocks of grass nesting cover are gone, or destroyed under the guise of the subsidized livestock forage program formerly known as CRP. Even the road ditches are hayed off in SD. No mystery that ground nesting birds are struggling. Not only SD, but ND, Nebraska, Kansas and here. put the pressure on congress to Restore CRP to what it was, and pheasants will be back in a few years, bounty or not. It really is that simple.

Re: SD tail bounty numbers [Re: NonPCfed] #7301643
07/08/21 03:09 AM
07/08/21 03:09 AM
Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,091
Dunbar, Wisconsin
P
Pike River Online content
trapper
Pike River  Online Content
trapper
P

Joined: Oct 2018
Posts: 5,091
Dunbar, Wisconsin
Originally Posted by NonPCfed
Quote
t is interesting talking with some of those wildlife science students, and what they retained. I have had Wildlife managers (past students) tell me that the Delta studies (and others) have proven that predator management does not work. That is the company line you will hear from most wildlife agencies. However, those studies actually showed that predator management can significantly improve nest success. The effectiveness of predator management programs become a matter of scale and economics. One reason wildlife agencies oppose predator management is that they almost always involves bounty programs. Bounty programs are expensive and compete directly with wildlife agencies for funding.


And, as I pointed out, for habitat improvement for game birds around the state, $500k won't get much if your trying to rent and make some farmland better game bird habitat. Maybe spending that initial $560k on putting in more shrub thickets/thermal cover (gawd, spare me more pure ERC shelterbelts on state game land!) on their existing land might have been better money spent...

Such a great thread with interesting info.

Im not terribly familiar with much of what you guys are talking about so forgive me, what are ERC shelterbelts?

Re: SD tail bounty numbers [Re: Ringneck1] #7301744
07/08/21 08:57 AM
07/08/21 08:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,070
MN
W
walleye101 Offline
trapper
walleye101  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,070
MN
Originally Posted by Ringneck1
Look I've got a ton of respect for Gov Noem. I would trade our idiot for her in a quick minute. But the bounty program is pure political expediency. Worse there is no scientific way to determine the relative success or failure. At least Delta did a critical analysis of their work. This will end exactly like this thread is going, the trapper folk think its great, the state bios discount predator work, and the game birds lose. No politician is perfect at least she got some people out trapping, but its not gonna do much for game birds.

Having spent time hunting in as many as 5 states in a given season I don't feel like I am going out on a limb by saying the reason pheasants are down is because the large blocks of grass nesting cover are gone, or destroyed under the guise of the subsidized livestock forage program formerly known as CRP. Even the road ditches are hayed off in SD. No mystery that ground nesting birds are struggling. Not only SD, but ND, Nebraska, Kansas and here. put the pressure on congress to Restore CRP to what it was, and pheasants will be back in a few years, bounty or not. It really is that simple.


No one is claiming that habitat is not the major problem effecting game bird abundance. That's understood. However, the reason large blocks of grass nesting cover are so important is because it reduces vulnerability to nest predation. That's a fact as well. The Delta work shows that predator removal improves nest success. Intensive removal resulting in significant measurable results on a relatively small scale. Just because results of extensive removal over the entire landscape are not measurable on a statistical level, does not mean there has been no improvement.

Re: SD tail bounty numbers [Re: Law Dog] #7301760
07/08/21 09:09 AM
07/08/21 09:09 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,811
MT
Boone Liane Offline
trapper
Boone Liane  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,811
MT
Delta has it figured out.

Identify “small” tracts of premium habitat and intensively remove nest predators from that tract.

Huge benefits.

Re: SD tail bounty numbers [Re: Law Dog] #7301774
07/08/21 09:45 AM
07/08/21 09:45 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 27,905
Central, SD
Law Dog Offline OP
trapper
Law Dog  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 27,905
Central, SD
It’s a bigger program then just the bounty program as that is just one part of a bigger goal. Look up the SD Second Century Initiative program when you have time. GFP promotes trapping whenever they can that’s surprising in this PC world you should see the BS that the bunny huggers post on the Governors web page the typical idiot anti garbage.

The best thing I see them doing is teaming up with 4H to get new and younger trappers involved, they are teaching the facts and supplying the needed equipment to get it done right.


Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!

Jerry Herbst
Re: SD tail bounty numbers [Re: Boone Liane] #7301835
07/08/21 11:19 AM
07/08/21 11:19 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,070
MN
W
walleye101 Offline
trapper
walleye101  Offline
trapper
W

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,070
MN
Originally Posted by Boone Liane
Delta has it figured out.

Identify “small” tracts of premium habitat and intensively remove nest predators from that tract.

Huge benefits.


Huge benefits on a small scale, or small benefits across a huge scale, which one results in the most cumulative overall benefit?

Also, Delta is specifically interested in duck production so it does make sense to target efforts near prime waterfowl habitats.

Re: SD tail bounty numbers [Re: Law Dog] #7301837
07/08/21 11:22 AM
07/08/21 11:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 4,364
se South Dakota
NonPCfed Offline
trapper
NonPCfed  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 4,364
se South Dakota
[quotem not terribly familiar with much of what you guys are talking about so forgive me, what are ERC shelterbelts? ][/quote]

No problem, my own self-created acronym. Eastern red cedar. For the greater Pacific Northwest guys, this tree is not actually a "cedar" such as you have there that produces a cone. "Eastern red cedar" is a type of juniper but because its has red interior wood and the eastern half of the country has almost no other junipers (that I know of), it got called "cedar". In South Dakota, its often planted as thermal cover for critters such as deer and pheasants because it grows so thick that it has insulation facor to such a planting. These shelter belts, especially if not very old, are just about impossible to walk through. To push deer out for other hunters to maybe get a shot out in the open, I've almost crawled through some of them. Not for people...


"And God said, Let us make man in our image …and let them have dominion …and all the creatures that move along the ground".
Genesis 1:26
Re: SD tail bounty numbers [Re: NonPCfed] #7301845
07/08/21 11:37 AM
07/08/21 11:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 12,135
Montana
USMC47 🦫 Offline
trapper
USMC47 🦫  Offline
trapper

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 12,135
Montana
Originally Posted by NonPCfed
Quote
By removing 53,642 of these nest raiders, the remaining 1,000,000 nest raiders will have more available food to eat from reduced competition, leading to increased litter sizes.


52Carl- Sorry, I don't believe you. I don't see any more or any less of those predators in my part of South Dakota and my county turned in the most tails in 2019. Almost no one comes to Minnehaha County to hunt pheasants. I think everybody from Gov Kristi on down in state government knows this bounty program isn't really going to change the predator dynamics all that much, but that's how they sell it. Much harder PR-wise to say the truth that its her big DOUBLE BIRD to the antis and all the other social elite scum bags and snowflakes that South Dakota is going to support its traditional roots and the latte swelling coffee house drinkers CNN & MSNBC watching pukes can just kiss our collective ***...
It’s time you quit beating around the bush and be honest. Lol.


The deadliest weapon in the world is a Marine and his rifle.

www.derricks-nm.com
Re: SD tail bounty numbers [Re: Law Dog] #7303294
07/10/21 07:45 PM
07/10/21 07:45 PM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 972
Nebraska
silkyplainscoyot Offline
trapper
silkyplainscoyot  Offline
trapper

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 972
Nebraska
It can be effective taking predators that affect ground nesting birds if done right. For example, take the least tern and piping plover that nest on sand bars or around gravel pits. Raccoons are the biggest problem. A friend has worked on a project in central Nebraska trapping raccoons extensively from the laying period through the rearing. (April - August) The hatch rate has went from 3% (when raccoons were wreaking havoc on eggs) to around 90% since raccoon have been heavily trapped. The least tern was on the endangered species list but was just recently removed.

Re: SD tail bounty numbers [Re: silkyplainscoyot] #7304088
07/11/21 10:00 PM
07/11/21 10:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,532
Virginia
5
52Carl Offline
trapper
52Carl  Offline
trapper
5

Joined: Jan 2014
Posts: 5,532
Virginia
Originally Posted by silkyplainscoyot
It can be effective taking predators that affect ground nesting birds if done right. For example, take the least tern and piping plover that nest on sand bars or around gravel pits. Raccoons are the biggest problem. A friend has worked on a project in central Nebraska trapping raccoons extensively from the laying period through the rearing. (April - August) The hatch rate has went from 3% (when raccoons were wreaking havoc on eggs) to around 90% since raccoon have been heavily trapped. The least tern was on the endangered species list but was just recently removed.

That has been my experience as well. That approach is a far cry from a random State-wide bounty system however.

Re: SD tail bounty numbers [Re: Law Dog] #7304154
07/12/21 12:07 AM
07/12/21 12:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 4,364
se South Dakota
NonPCfed Offline
trapper
NonPCfed  Offline
trapper

Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 4,364
se South Dakota
Not random, patterns do emerge. Minnehaha County has the most people so turned in the most tails. The Hutterites must really like the program, 5 out of the 7 James River counties show up on the map for high numbers, including the 3 lower counties that probably combined have 15+ "colonies" in them. Easy money for such multi-family but "single" farm type of operation...

https://sdgfp.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.html#/e7bbbd6fa93b48c6a31985aa7c57c5ff


"And God said, Let us make man in our image …and let them have dominion …and all the creatures that move along the ground".
Genesis 1:26
Re: SD tail bounty numbers [Re: Law Dog] #7304208
07/12/21 07:16 AM
07/12/21 07:16 AM
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 5,655
Texas
Mark June Online content
trapper
Mark June  Online Content
trapper

Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 5,655
Texas
As a biologist and trapper I support bounties (big and small) and harvesting critters.
Pretty straight forward.

Research in the wildlife management arena has been animal rights tainted since the 1970's. You have to sift through the thesis and the educational history and field workings of researchers to get a flavor for what "they" advocate. You will find that anti-harvest fanatics (as I call them) are often the most active in wildlife research as they have a personal agenda = a presupposition to any of their work = biased.

It is hard to find good researchers today since so much of academia is infested with liberal professors who teach these anti-harvest personnel who grow up to wear nice uniforms with state patches on them.

Just like this forum, we have all sorts of philosophies in our animal husbandry and wildlife management programs.
Sift through it carefully.

Blessings,
Mark


Dallas Theological Seminary
https://www.dts.edu
https://www.markjuneslures.com/
Predator Trapping Academy Host



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