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Question for grain farmers #7303786
07/11/21 01:51 PM
07/11/21 01:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,188
Ky
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jbyrd63 Offline OP
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jbyrd63  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2014
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Ky
Got a question for you grain farmers. Locally the grain farmers have stopped harvesting their wheat for about 10 years. They run the beans or corn in the fall then plant the wheat . It grows looks beautiful but then they spray it to kill it after it is in full head. But NEVER cut it for straw or combine it. They come back in after it browns and plant beans or corn again. Is the cost of the seed and fuel to plant the wheat , plus the spray to kill it benefiting the ground that much? I know why the wheat is sown but to just let it rot in the field? Guys I hunt on have 6800 acres and they plant it back every year . Have to spend a fortune putting that wheat out .

Re: Question for grain farmers [Re: jbyrd63] #7303790
07/11/21 02:02 PM
07/11/21 02:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,796
IA
T
teepee2 Offline
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IA
It is called a cover crop. It protects soil from erosion, and nutrient loss. Plus it aids in soil structure through the bio-mass it produces.

Last edited by teepee2; 07/11/21 02:02 PM.
Re: Question for grain farmers [Re: jbyrd63] #7303791
07/11/21 02:06 PM
07/11/21 02:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,674
Georgia
warrior Offline
trapper
warrior  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 25,674
Georgia
I know nothing of costs but I see some of that done here with crimson clover. Grown as a cover crop to keep weeds from getting a foothold then sprayed down and planted no till. Adds nitrogen to cut fertilizer costs and claims that it helps build soil as it breaks down. It certainly holds the soil from erosion.
I'm also seeing rye grass used as well but it needs sprayed down before it sets seed if you want to avoid volunteers the next season. Some recommendations to use crimper rollers to kill rather than spraying. If rolled it makes a natural mat of mulch suitable for direct seeding large seeds or transplants.


[Linked Image]
Re: Question for grain farmers [Re: jbyrd63] #7303792
07/11/21 02:07 PM
07/11/21 02:07 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 98
Ky
S
squirrelslayer Offline
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 98
Ky
You sure it's not cereal rye that they are doing this with? Not saying they wont do it with wheat but rye is cheaper and used as a cover crop. Depending on the grade of the land, the erosion it prevents and the nutrient retention it it allows can more than often offset the cost to plant it in saved fertilizer cost for the next crop. It's kind of a industrial form of back to eden farming. As for not combining my guess would be the seed contains a majority of the nutrients so its something they want to leave in the field. On a large scale like you describe seems kind of unusual but my best guess is maybe it is leftover seed that they are using but I cant be sure as this part of the state they combine all the wheat and bale all the straw.

Re: Question for grain farmers [Re: teepee2] #7303793
07/11/21 02:07 PM
07/11/21 02:07 PM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 6,226
Kansas
Pawnee Offline
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Kansas
Originally Posted by teepee2
It is called a cover crop. It protects soil from erosion, and nutrient loss. Plus it aids in soil structure through the bio-mass it produces.


Yes. In different parts of the country different cover crops are used. A variety of turnips are used as cover crops some to fracture compacted soil some for cover. We don’t use any because we can’t spare the moisture.


Everything the left touches it destroys
Re: Question for grain farmers [Re: jbyrd63] #7303847
07/11/21 03:13 PM
07/11/21 03:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,169
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
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It's hard to put a price on the value of a cover crop and it varies region to region. More are doing it in my area. Some say it adds value over its cost, some say it's about a break even and some say it's cost is greater than it's value in my area. We do some on the operation I work on but we graze it in the fall to help recover some of the input costs.

Re: Question for grain farmers [Re: jbyrd63] #7303853
07/11/21 03:17 PM
07/11/21 03:17 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15,802
Champaign County, Ohio.
K
KeithC Offline
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Champaign County, Ohio.
Locally, some farmers plant oats as a cover crop during the winter and till the oats in before planting corn or beans. Winter wheat gets harvested here.

Keith

Re: Question for grain farmers [Re: jbyrd63] #7303856
07/11/21 03:29 PM
07/11/21 03:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 10,842
Asheville, NC
C
charles Offline
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Asheville, NC
In eastern NC many peanut farmers sell their peanut hay after the peanut harvest. Peanut hay is very nutrient-rich. Purchasing the equivalent volume of fertilizer is normally more expensive than plowing the hay back. Hay sales generate cash, however.

Re: Question for grain farmers [Re: squirrelslayer] #7303860
07/11/21 03:41 PM
07/11/21 03:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,188
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline OP
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2014
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Ky
Originally Posted by squirrelslayer
You sure it's not cereal rye that they are doing this with? Not saying they wont do it with wheat but rye is cheaper and used as a cover crop. Depending on the grade of the land, the erosion it prevents and the nutrient retention it it allows can more than often offset the cost to plant it in saved fertilizer cost for the next crop. It's kind of a industrial form of back to eden farming. As for not combining my guess would be the seed contains a majority of the nutrients so its something they want to leave in the field. On a large scale like you describe seems kind of unusual but my best guess is maybe it is leftover seed that they are using but I cant be sure as this part of the state they combine all the wheat and bale all the straw.


Left over from what ? They do it every year and it's not just one bunch of farmers. IT"S 90 % . It may be cereal rye but looks like wheat. Ground is fairly level so erosion isn't the case. BUT dang with diesel as high as it is seems foolish . Plus straw is nearly 8 bucks a bail I don't know why they don't at least square bale it. Don't say labor this bunch has a maching that picks it up and stacks it. OR throws it in a box wagon.
Heck the round up bill to kill it would by a lot of fertilizer.
YES I KNOW IT'S called a cover crop!! DUH BUt they used to combine it but over last 8-10 years they just spray it and move on to no till. PLUS In dry years that fodder has to soak up a ton of moister before the rain even gets to the ground ! Looks like 3 reasons not to do it. UNLESS they need the right off for taxes ?

Re: Question for grain farmers [Re: jbyrd63] #7303863
07/11/21 03:49 PM
07/11/21 03:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,301
Sugar Grove, WV
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JTfromWV Offline
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Sugar Grove, WV
Maybe you should tell them they are doing it all wrong.

Re: Question for grain farmers [Re: jbyrd63] #7303872
07/11/21 04:03 PM
07/11/21 04:03 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,511
MN
S
Steven 49er Offline
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Steven 49er  Offline
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S

Joined: May 2010
Posts: 10,511
MN
lol.


"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
Re: Question for grain farmers [Re: jbyrd63] #7303873
07/11/21 04:03 PM
07/11/21 04:03 PM
Joined: Feb 2017
Posts: 345
MISSOURI,Laclede Co
F
farmnhunt Offline
trapper
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MISSOURI,Laclede Co
If you wait until wheat is ready to harvest, you are too late to plant corn. Also you cannot buy crop insurance on corn and wheat on the same acres for most of the country. If soybeans are planted after wheat is harvested, it is considered a double crop, and has a lower insured yield.

Some states have an incentive to plant a cover crop through soil and water conservation districts

Re: Question for grain farmers [Re: jbyrd63] #7303900
07/11/21 04:49 PM
07/11/21 04:49 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 98
Ky
S
squirrelslayer Offline
trapper
squirrelslayer  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 98
Ky
Originally Posted by jbyrd63
Originally Posted by squirrelslayer
You sure it's not cereal rye that they are doing this with? Not saying they wont do it with wheat but rye is cheaper and used as a cover crop. Depending on the grade of the land, the erosion it prevents and the nutrient retention it it allows can more than often offset the cost to plant it in saved fertilizer cost for the next crop. It's kind of a industrial form of back to eden farming. As for not combining my guess would be the seed contains a majority of the nutrients so its something they want to leave in the field. On a large scale like you describe seems kind of unusual but my best guess is maybe it is leftover seed that they are using but I cant be sure as this part of the state they combine all the wheat and bale all the straw.


Left over from what ? They do it every year and it's not just one bunch of farmers. IT"S 90 % . It may be cereal rye but looks like wheat. Ground is fairly level so erosion isn't the case. BUT dang with diesel as high as it is seems foolish . Plus straw is nearly 8 bucks a bail I don't know why they don't at least square bale it. Don't say labor this bunch has a maching that picks it up and stacks it. OR throws it in a box wagon.
Heck the round up bill to kill it would by a lot of fertilizer.
YES I KNOW IT'S called a cover crop!! DUH BUt they used to combine it but over last 8-10 years they just spray it and move on to no till. PLUS In dry years that fodder has to soak up a ton of moister before the rain even gets to the ground ! Looks like 3 reasons not to do it. UNLESS they need the right off for taxes ?




The leftover seed I was said was an option is if it is wheat large production agriculture will have leftover seed from previous plantings and in large enough ag production can be quite a lot. This seed is often plenty viable for anything but production with harvest in mind. That was just a speculation as to what it could be. As for the rest of that statement I'll try to answer likely reasons not necessarily the correct answer obviously. Bare dirt WILL erode no ifs and or butts. Heavy grade can increase but soil loss happens at a rate that is hard to fathom when soil is bare. As for not combining the grain with it being the last 8-10 years like you said I'm guessing they are doing just has been said in above posts. That type of ag benefits are compounded the longer that practice is in place. As organic matter increases so does the rate that new matter can be broken down to be used by plants.Combining and baling remove all the nutrients that stalk and head have took up that would be available to break down and return to the soil instead of removing. As to the moisture, moisture retention will be 10 fold better in the field with fodder than if it was removed. Do you have a good mulch in your yard? Wait until a dry spell and go sift through the mulch and you will find moisture, not the case on dirt. Now whether all this is a cost benefit at the end of the day I dont know but most farmers keep a pretty close eye on cost analysis so I would say its probably working for them.

Re: Question for grain farmers [Re: jbyrd63] #7303906
07/11/21 04:57 PM
07/11/21 04:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,169
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Yes sir  Offline
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Y

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Marion Kansas
Organic material does things for the soil that chemical fertilizers cannot. And an application of herbicide is going to buy very much fertilizer.

Re: Question for grain farmers [Re: jbyrd63] #7303917
07/11/21 05:18 PM
07/11/21 05:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,485
Idaho
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bearcat2 Offline
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Idaho
They are likely marketing there crop as "organic" and "no-till", the granola eaters will pay four or five times as much for this label. So even if production wise it makes no sense, they can come out ahead by selling less product for a much higher price.

Re: Question for grain farmers [Re: jbyrd63] #7303922
07/11/21 05:31 PM
07/11/21 05:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,835
KY.usa
rex123 Offline
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rex123  Offline
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KY.usa
Here is a silly idea , next time you see them just ask them.

Re: Question for grain farmers [Re: Yes sir] #7303955
07/11/21 06:50 PM
07/11/21 06:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,188
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline OP
trapper
jbyrd63  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,188
Ky
Originally Posted by Yes sir
Organic material does things for the soil that chemical fertilizers cannot. And an application of herbicide is going to buy very much fertilizer.


That's just a drop in the bucket of the cost . Seed and diesel would be the biggest expense.

Re: Question for grain farmers [Re: farmnhunt] #7303957
07/11/21 06:52 PM
07/11/21 06:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,188
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline OP
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jbyrd63  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2014
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Ky
Originally Posted by farmnhunt
If you wait until wheat is ready to harvest, you are too late to plant corn. Also you cannot buy crop insurance on corn and wheat on the same acres for most of the country. If soybeans are planted after wheat is harvested, it is considered a double crop, and has a lower insured yield.

Some states have an incentive to plant a cover crop through soil and water conservation districts

Maybe but the thing is they USED TO combine the wheat but not anymore.

Re: Question for grain farmers [Re: rex123] #7303959
07/11/21 06:53 PM
07/11/21 06:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 13,188
Ky
J
jbyrd63 Offline OP
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jbyrd63  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2014
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Ky
Originally Posted by rex123
Here is a silly idea , next time you see them just ask them.


I'm going to . Thanks for the advice. LOL

Re: Question for grain farmers [Re: jbyrd63] #7303960
07/11/21 06:54 PM
07/11/21 06:54 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 14,873
Greene County,Virginia
R
run Offline
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run  Offline
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Greene County,Virginia
It sounds like triticale to me. I'm not a grain farmer though.


wanna be goat farmer.
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