the point is, your level of required proof is subject to your bias.

one thing (loss of Freedom) is right in front of your face, but you refuse to accept it.

actually, I guess the same could be said for God's existence...it's right in front of your face.

LOL deleted again

I recollect no stupid posts like this back in the days of Noah.

If there is some common ground; please let me in on it!

I ponder why some feel the click urge to input on these threads when their only intent is to mock?

These same types of anthropological responses are one of the apologetics as to the existence of God and are well documented.
Fascinating how some literally can't be in the same vicinity as these posts and must chime in.

Blessings,
Mark

The wicked people of the earth watched Noah build a boat. He warned them, they mocked him. God brought the flood.

Well it certainly does go into deeper content and are very similar books but no I think they are different books all together. These are the ones I am talking about and I guess no one really knows....

https://www.bing.com/search?q=annal...&pglt=43&FORM=ANNTA1&PC=HCTS


BOOKS OF THE CHRONICLES OF THE KINGS OF JUDAH AND ISRAEL, two sets of royal annals, mentioned in I and II Kings but subsequently lost. The historian of Kings refers to these works as his source, where additional information may be found. These references show how the historian of Kings used extensive sources selectively. The books are referred to by this formula, with slight variations: "Now the rest of the acts of [the king], and all that he did, behold, they are written in the book of the chronicles of the kings of Judah/Israel." Frequently references are made to "his might," or "how we warred," and occasionally more specific deeds are mentioned (e.g., I Kings 15:23; II Kings 20:20).

The Israelite annals are mentioned 18 times (I Kings 14:19 (17); 15:31; 16:5; et al.) and the Judean annals 15 times (I Kings 14:29; 15:7, 23; et al.). Of all the kings of Israel, only Jehoram and Hosea are not mentioned as referred to in the Israelite annals. Of the kings of Judah (after Solomon) only Ahaziah, Athaliah, Jehoahaz, Jehoiachin, and Zedekiah are not mentioned in this regard. It is uncertain whether these books were royal records themselves or edited annals based on the records. It seems likely in view of the negative references to certain kings (Zimri, Shallum, and Manasseh), which would not very likely be the product of the king's own recorders, that the books were edited annals. Furthermore, the Judean author of Kings could hardly have had access to all the royal records of the northern kingdom. The content of these books appears identical in character to the Assyrian annals. Probably the mass of facts on royal activities in Kings came from these books. Chronicles mentions the book of the kings of Israel (I Chron. 9:1; II Chron. 20:34) and the book of the kings of Israel and Judah (or Judah and Israel; II Chron. 16: 11; 27:7; et al.). The chronicler seems to be referring to the same works, but probably did not actually have them at his disposal.

LL,
This citation seems to be from a Jewish foundation although I admit I only clicked on the link. They, like liberal theologians, have spent centuries heretically saying what they say and to be honest the world has enough heretics saying what heretics always say (they hold the "real" keys to truth) that I don't pay attention too much. Their legions are too many.
Realize at a minimum, that Judaism is not Christian at its core. Some will say that Muslims, Jews, and Christians worship the same God. But do they?

Scripture helps us know answers to big questions like this = Jesus spoke very harshly to the Judiazers. He condemned them for they could not bear to hear His Word. Sound familiar even still today?

[i]Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would be doing the works Abraham did, but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. You are doing the works your father did.” They said to him, “We were not born of sexual immorality. We have one Father—even God.” Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I came from God and I am here. I came not of my own accord, but he sent me. Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me. Which one of you convicts me of sin? If I tell the truth, why do you not believe me? Whoever is of God hears the words of God The reason why you do not hear them is that you are not of God.”./i] (John 8:39-47)

There is great clarity in these verses. Islam and Judaism doesn't recognize Jesus as God. The I AM. The God-man born of a Virgin and Whom God's Grace was Incarnate of the Virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit. Without Jesus as God in all ways Christians have everywhere, always, and by all believed, the claim to worship the same God as Christians worship is false.

I don't really put stock in the writings of those who do not believe as Christians do. Like your link I think.

Per doctrine, Holy Scripture was handed down through the ages to us, Inspired by God, Inerrant in its original writings for us to know who God is. The Bible is God's narrative story. We have enough in it to know what He would have us know.

Exodus 34:6-7 is a summary of God's attributes and characteristics. The Spirit illuminates the Word for us to help us understand what a depraved mind cannot.
The fact that we have Bibles is a miracle.

Blessings LL,
Mark

Mark I know and believe everything you wrote. I just wanted to know where we would find the books of the annals of the kings of Judah and of Israel that are spoke of in Kings. Almost all the Kings except a few. LLL

I also know these books were not inspired. They are simply records spoken of by the chronicler of Kings who most certainly was inspired and quoted these annals often. They have since been lost. It would give even more insight into why these kings never could get it together and lead their people to serve God as they were supposed to. LLL

[quote=danny clifton]What I read about the days of Noah didn’t sound to good. A creater created imperfect people.....


Danny - No. That is not correct. He created a perfect people with the ability to choose. They chose sin and to reject Gods Word. Just as you choose and have a choice to accept or reject.

Danny - I am still praying for you as I have said over the years. I appreciate your interest in still commenting on scriptural posts and know someday we all will stand before our Creator. I pray before then, you understand more of what He has done for you and the everlasting love He has for you.

Since the beginning of Mankind and "their consciousness of senses", there was a perception of a Higher Power(s) in their Universe, whether it be the Sun, Moon, Wind, Water, Mother Earth, or other Entities etc. Even today if "we" as individuals were not aware of this, we would not spend time in thought of such conflict. IMHO, it doesn't matter what "religion" you have been exposed to. Bottom line is that you either believe or you don't. "We cannot have life without balance of life and death, or light and darkness". Don't waste YOUR time trying to convince others either way.

If I believed in double predestination then I might say that those that are contrary might be one of those doomed by the double predestination. But since I believe that "Whosoever Will" then I feel there is still hope regardless how contrary they may be. If I bought in on being the elect by predestination then my only election would be to service and not to salvation, therefore it is my duty to pray for the lost.

The 'elect' don't know who they are until they are effectually called and if they don't know who they are, you and I sure don't. I'm a Calvinist not so much because of John Calvin, I'm a Calvinist because it is in the Bible.

The doctrine of election frightens a lot of people but I find it reassuring.

The doctrine of free will is also taught in the bible. I dont believe we will ever have that riddle solved. But as for me, I do not believe a man is predestined to hades.

Riddle? According to the bible ,the creator talked about in the bible, is all knowing. This perfect creator would have had to known his human creation was going to eat the apple. Had to know that people would not obey. That some people would be born mentally ill and not even have a conscience. So why did that creator decide everyone except one family would be killed by torture? In fact why kill them at all when their flaws were deliberately given to them. At the heart of your religion are some really ridiculous concepts that are no more true than saying the moon is made of green cheese.

Unless of course your creator doesn’t follow his own rules

Danny, there is a difference between knowing the beginning to the end and allowing free will and predesinating it to happen. We will never be able to comprend it.
Lets hear what you hold to as the world came into being, why things are the way they are.

Jwill I dont know.


That doesn’t mean a bunch of ancient herdsmen knew either

One particular instance where God followed his own rules was when he told Adam he would die if he ate from that tree. If one believes Gods word killed Adam, then God went by his own law with "blood for blood and life for life". In which he redeemed Adams life , which was perfect before the fall with the sacrifice of His Son which was perfect, fulfilling blood for blood and life for life.

Danny you may have read the Bible but if not you should. It’s full of lots of wisdom that can do a guy a ton of good in everyday life. You don’t have to believe in God or anything else to read it. Lots of good stuff in there

Being forced to believe a certain way by the threat of death and everlasting torment is not "free will" its extortion.