Re: Taliban took over Afghanistan.
[Re: Gary Benson]
#7331806
08/16/21 04:38 PM
08/16/21 04:38 PM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,522 McGrath, AK
white17
"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 35,522
McGrath, AK
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Here ya go.
Biden’s Chamberlain Moment in Afghanistan The fall of Kabul has been heard around the world, to the dismay of our allies and delight of our enemies.
‘You were given the choice between war and dishonor. You chose dishonor and you will have war.” Winston Churchill’s words to Neville Chamberlain following the Munich agreement echo grimly across Washington this week as the Biden administration reckons with the consequences of the worst-handled foreign-policy crisis since the Bay of Pigs and the most devastating blow to American prestige since the fall of Saigon.
Joe Biden believed two things about Afghanistan. First, that he could stage a dignified and orderly withdrawal from America’s longest war. Second, that a Taliban win in Afghanistan would not seriously affect U.S. power and prestige world-wide. He was utterly and unspinnably wrong about the first. One fears he was equally wrong about the second.
The bipartisan scuttle caucus of which President Biden is a founding member—and former President Trump an eager recruit—argued that withdrawal would enhance rather than undermine American credibility. Ending a war in a remote country of little intrinsic interest to the U.S. does not, one can argue, make America look weak. If anything, the two-decade U.S. intervention testifies to an American doggedness that should reassure our allies about our will. At the same time, cutting our losses after 20 years of failing to build a solid government and military in Afghanistan demonstrates a realism and wisdom that should reassure allies about Washington’s judgment.
Defenders of the withdrawal argue this is one way that America can reduce its footprint in peripheral theaters to focus on the principal threat in coastal East Asia. Why should the U.S. government pay the heavy price—in military resources and in the political costs at home of defending an endless engagement in a remote part of the world—required to contain the Taliban? Isn’t the jihadist group a more direct threat to both Russia and China than to America? Why are U.S. soldiers fighting and dying so that Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping have one less headache to worry about?
A well-executed withdrawal that visibly served a coherent national strategy might have accomplished what Messrs. Trump and Biden hoped. But that is not what we have, and the Biden administration is facing a major test of credibility. The president’s tragically misguided press-conference remarks of July 8, in which he doubled down on naively optimistic predictions that would have embarrassed Baghdad Bob, cast a shadow over the president’s judgment that will not be easily or quickly dispelled.
The Taliban’s sweeping military victory should not have surprised Mr. Biden. The core of the argument for withdrawal, an argument he has embraced for more than a decade, is that the Afghan government and military are so irredeemably weak and corrupt that it is pointless for America to support them. To expect that such a government and such an army would cohere long enough to provide its vanishing betrayers a dignified retreat is magical thinking of the silliest kind.
The fall of Kabul has been heard around the world. In Europe, where allies had no say in either the substance or the timing of the president’s decision this looks like yet another instance of the incoherent U.S. unilateralism that marked President Obama’s reversal of his Syrian red line and much of Mr. Trump’s policy. It is not just that America’s scuttle threatens to produce a massive refugee crisis in Europe. After 9/11 our allies invoked Article 5 of the NATO mutual defense treaty to come to the aid of the U.S. They deserved some real input into the decision and the planning of any end to the war and are right to resent the arrogant incompetence that presented them with a disastrous fait accompli. In the future, Mr. Biden must expect even less European deference and respect than he has so far received.
China, Russia and Iran surely interpret this shambolic performance as a sign of exploitable weakness and poor judgment. From the peaks of Pakistan to the sands of the Sahel, fanatical jihadists discouraged by the failure of ISIS sense a fresh and favorable turn of events with the arrival of their greatest victory since 9/11. Recruitment will prosper and resources will flow—fed by the sophisticated weapons and tech we left in the field. The president may be finished with Afghanistan, but Afghanistan may not be finished with him.
A multitude of cooks collaborated to spoil this broth. The George W. Bush administration invaded Afghanistan with no clear idea of what to do next. Through the Bush and Obama years, American war aims inexorably and witlessly widened as Congress and private advocacy groups got into the act. Afghanistan was going to be a modern democratic country. Its women would have equal rights. Religious freedom would be guaranteed by a U.S.-inspired constitution. Pride flags floated in the Afghan skies. Kabul University opened a master’s degree program in gender studies.
As America’s war aims reached ever loftier and less feasible heights, the U.S. military studiously ignored the gaping flaw in its strategy: unrelenting support for the Taliban from our “ally” in Islamabad. As long as the Pakistanis offered the jihadist group sanctuary and support, it could not be destroyed. Worse, after any American departure, the Taliban’s Pakistani backing would give it an insurmountable advantage over the democratic Afghan government.
The U.S. security establishment dithered for 20 years, unwilling to confront Islamabad effectively or to recognize that failure and change its Afghan policy to accommodate its consequences. As it is, Pakistan—a nuclear power with a record of promoting proliferation and deep ties both to China and to the most hate-filled and murderous jihadist groups—has faced down America and achieved its long-term goal of reinstalling a friendly regime to its north. Whether Pakistan will be happy with its radical neighbor in the long term remains to be seen, but for now Pakistani hard-liners are celebrating the greatest single win in their history.
Nothing is more vain than the hope that somehow this debacle will help the U.S. in the Indo-Pacific. For more than 70 years India, whose massive population and economy make it a linchpin of any American strategy in Asia, has seen the world through the lens of its competition with Pakistan. Now, as Islamabad cements its ties with Beijing, the U.S. withdrawal from Afghanistan hands Pakistan a strategic victory and strengthens the most radical anti-Indian and anti-Western forces in its government. Few in New Delhi will perceive this catastrophe as a sign of Washington’s competence or reliability. If a third-tier country like Pakistan can tie the U.S. in knots, Indians will ask: What chance does Washington have against China?
Perhaps the biggest winner in this dismal week was former Defense Secretary Robert Gates, who wrote in his 2014 memoir that then Vice President Biden “has been wrong on nearly every major foreign policy and national security issue over the past four decades.” Those lines may not have the Churchillian flair, but they are unlikely to be forgotten now. We must all hope that Mr. Biden can claw his way out of this hole into which he so heedlessly and unnecessarily leapt.
Copyright ©2021 Dow Jones & Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Mean As Nails
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Re: Taliban took over Afghanistan.
[Re: Gary Benson]
#7331819
08/16/21 04:53 PM
08/16/21 04:53 PM
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Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 2,575 Missouri
HayDay
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I would hope by now the concept of setting of a nuke would never be seriously considered. Having said that, there are other equally impressive options. If memory serves, one of the first thing Trump did was authorize the use of a MOAB in the cave region of Tora Bora. Lit em up and took off half a mountain. Things calmed down in a hurry.
Put me in charge and let me know when a good size group of Taliban are assembled in our embassy and I'd set off something the size of a Daisy Cutter, which levels something about the size of 40 acres. Just a reminder of what awaits if they Al Qaida or others start feeling frisky and decide to go on some wild adventure.
No more going door to door and getting sucked into quicksand. We done doing that. Leave us alone.....we leave you alone. A fair trade.
Easy to vote your way into socialism, but impossible to vote your way out of it.
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Re: Taliban took over Afghanistan.
[Re: beaverpeeler]
#7331854
08/16/21 05:49 PM
08/16/21 05:49 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,094 Cheyenne Wyoming
Castormound
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Biden just released a statement it is Trump’s fault he inherited this mess. Weak people never admit their mistakes. Trumpy was pretty good at admitting all his mistakes...yes? Just can't help yourself, can ya?
Antelope, the original fast food!!
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Re: Taliban took over Afghanistan.
[Re: Gary Benson]
#7331875
08/16/21 06:19 PM
08/16/21 06:19 PM
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 3,784 N. Carolina
Scout1
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What Astan needed was a good dose of William T. Sherman. Sherman's butt kicking is ingrained in all southerners from then to now. He knew TOTAL WAR was bad, but needed to end the war. The last enenmy the US truly defeated was Japan. And the Japs have been good since then. Our problem is the poloticians not allowing the military to carry out a butt kicking like needs to be done. War is a fact of life that many Americans can not handle. It was how our country was founded. Any where humans are there will be war. The only true way to peace is through war, not diplomacy. I will always remember videos of the US pushing helo's over the decks of the aircraft carriers in Nam, the Russians retreating over that bridge leaving Astan. Now it will be that US aircraft going down the airstrip with all the afgans hanging on, scared crapless for their lives.
------------------------------------- DJT in 2024!
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Re: Taliban took over Afghanistan.
[Re: Gary Benson]
#7331892
08/16/21 06:33 PM
08/16/21 06:33 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,858 SEPA
Lugnut
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Al Jazeera reporting the international airport in Kabul has been taken over by the taliban.
I hope all our people are out.
Eh...wot?
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Re: Taliban took over Afghanistan.
[Re: Lugnut]
#7331898
08/16/21 06:39 PM
08/16/21 06:39 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
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adam m
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Al Jazeera reporting the international airport in Kabul has been taken over by the taliban.
I hope all our people are out. I heard earlier evacs were suspended due to the chaos. Yet 30k are getting asylum because they worked for us.
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Re: Taliban took over Afghanistan.
[Re: adam m]
#7331908
08/16/21 06:57 PM
08/16/21 06:57 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 35,910 Central, SD
Law Dog
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Al Jazeera reporting the international airport in Kabul has been taken over by the taliban.
I hope all our people are out. I heard earlier evacs were suspended due to the chaos. Yet 30k are getting asylum because they worked for us. If they live long enough to get it!
Was born in a Big City Will die in the Country OK with that!
Jerry Herbst
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Re: Taliban took over Afghanistan.
[Re: Gary Benson]
#7331914
08/16/21 07:12 PM
08/16/21 07:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,379 Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
James
"Minka"
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"Minka"
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Posts: 17,379
Coeur d' Alene, Idaho
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Interesting article, Ken. I won't argue that Biden is incompetently implementing the withdrawal agreement made by Trump. Biden has bungled the withdrawal, no question.
But the article's author fails to say what ought to be done about Afghanistan. He draws a parallel with Churchill and Chamberlain, but unlike Churchill, the author has no alternative plan.
In fact, I haven't heard an alternate plan from anyone on this thread.
Jim
Forum Infidel since 2001
"And that troll bs is something triggered snowflakes say when they dont like what someone posts." - Boco
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Re: Taliban took over Afghanistan.
[Re: Lugnut]
#7331916
08/16/21 07:13 PM
08/16/21 07:13 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 17,637 Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
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Al Jazeera reporting the international airport in Kabul has been taken over by the taliban.
I hope all our people are out. Link? Not seeing anything about that on Al Jazeera or anywhere.
Just give me one thing, that I can hold on to. To believe in this livin' is just a hard way to go.
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Re: Taliban took over Afghanistan.
[Re: Gary Benson]
#7331924
08/16/21 07:27 PM
08/16/21 07:27 PM
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Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 25,697 nm
adam m
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Re: Taliban took over Afghanistan.
[Re: yotetrapper30]
#7331929
08/16/21 07:37 PM
08/16/21 07:37 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,858 SEPA
Lugnut
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Al Jazeera reporting the international airport in Kabul has been taken over by the taliban.
I hope all our people are out. Link? Not seeing anything about that on Al Jazeera or anywhere. It was a banner on Al Jazeera News that said "Talban have taken Hamid Karzai International Airport." I now believe that was premature. They have blocked access to the airport so no more American sympathizers can flee the country but I don't think they've actually taken control of the airport. It is being reported that we have resumed evacuations after temporarily suspending operations due to chaos and violence.
Eh...wot?
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Re: Taliban took over Afghanistan.
[Re: Gary Benson]
#7331930
08/16/21 07:37 PM
08/16/21 07:37 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 20,858 SEPA
Lugnut
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Another recent report I just read says Taliban personnel are inside the airport and that our military have killed at least two of them. Violence at Kabul AirportViolence Erupts at Kabul Airport as Afghans Try to Flee Taliban Mass evacuations follow the insurgents’ capture of Kabul after a rapid sweep of the country Kabul’s international airport was in the throes of chaos Monday as desperate Afghans tried to flee on departing U.S. jets, Taliban gunmen roamed the terminals, and U.S. troops killed at least two men, a sign of the disorder in the wake of the Taliban’s takeover of Afghanistan. U.S. troops flew helicopters low overhead, launched smoke grenades and fired into the air in an attempt to disperse crowds and gain control of the facility, where the U.S. is staging the evacuation of American personnel, thousands of Afghan interpreters, and others who worked for the U.S. and now fear Taliban retribution. President Biden, in an address to the nation defending his April decision to withdraw U.S. troops from the country as part of last year’s peace deal, acknowledged, “This did unfold more quickly than we anticipated.” The president is facing criticism from both parties in Congress after expressing confidence for months that the Kabul government and Afghan military could hold off the Taliban. He noted Monday that Afghan’s political leadership had fled the country and the Afghan military had collapsed, in many cases without a fight.
Eh...wot?
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