questioning scientists...
#7346233
09/02/21 07:17 PM
09/02/21 07:17 PM
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white marlin
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I'm noticing a trend over the last few years: it seems like to question a scientist is akin to being the epitome of the Flat-Earthers.
they aren't infallible!
Last edited by white marlin; 09/02/21 07:19 PM.
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Re: questioning scientists...
[Re: white marlin]
#7346247
09/02/21 07:47 PM
09/02/21 07:47 PM
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 6,355 se South Dakota
NonPCfed
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The new secular religion, science and government. I see it everyday, they just won't admit that its their religion...
"And God said, Let us make man in our image �and let them have dominion �and all the creatures that move along the ground". Genesis 1:26
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Re: questioning scientists...
[Re: white marlin]
#7346250
09/02/21 07:48 PM
09/02/21 07:48 PM
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Joined: Dec 2017
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Pawnee
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Yes it’s now a big no no. CDC stopped releasing data in May. Your just supposed to read and take to heart what they tell you it says. Same with NAOO and NASA on climate change. Just take our word for it we will tell you the truth!’
Everything the left touches it destroys
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Re: questioning scientists...
[Re: white marlin]
#7346256
09/02/21 07:55 PM
09/02/21 07:55 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,697 Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB
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Good post for this...excerpt from Aliens Cause Global Warming-lecture from Dr. Michael Crichton Worst of all was the behavior of the Scientific American, which seemed intent on proving the post-modernist point that it was all about power, not facts. The Scientific American attacked Lomborg for eleven pages, yet only came up with nine factual errors despite their assertion that the book was “rife with careless mistakes.” It was a poor display, featuring vicious ad hominem attacks, including comparing him to a Holocaust denier. The issue was captioned: “Science defends itself against the Skeptical Environmentalist.” Really. Science has to defend itself? Is this what we have come to? When Lomborg asked for space to rebut his critics, he was given only a page and a half. When he said it wasn’t enough, he put the critics’ essays on his web page and answered them in detail. Scientific American threatened copyright infringement and made him take the pages down. Further attacks since, have made it clear what is going on. Lomborg is charged with heresy. That’s why none of his critics needs to substantiate their attacks in any detail. That’s why the facts don’t matter. That’s why they can attack him in the most vicious personal terms. He’s a heretic. Of course, any scientist can be charged as Galileo was charged. I just never thought I’d see the Scientific American in the role of Mother Church. Is this what science has become? I hope not. But it is what it will become, unless there is a concerted effort by leading scientists to aggressively separate science from policy. The late Philip Handler, former president of the National Academy of Sciences, said that “Scientists best serve public policy by living within the ethics of science, not those of politics. If the scientific community will not unfrock the charlatans, the public will not discern the difference—science and the nation will suffer.”
Personally, I don’t worry about the nation. But I do worry about science. Full lecture here: https://stephenschneider.stanford.edu/Publications/PDF_Papers/Crichton2003.pdf
Last edited by SNIPERB🦝; 09/02/21 07:59 PM.
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Re: questioning scientists...
[Re: Blaine County]
#7346267
09/02/21 08:16 PM
09/02/21 08:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 6,500 central Haudenosaunee, the De...
white marlin
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A fundamental part of science is questioning science.
However to properly do it you have to question science with science. YouTube, Facebook, internet memes and the crap spewed by most politicians is not science. And, the "science" from those sources is rarely credible. but what if you're not ALLOWED to question it... and anyway, I'd submit to you that ANYBODY can/SHOULD not only question, but INTERROGATE "science" ! if it's true "Science", it will stand up to scrutiny, regardless of who asks the questions. True?
Last edited by white marlin; 09/02/21 08:28 PM.
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Re: questioning scientists...
[Re: warrior]
#7346274
09/02/21 08:23 PM
09/02/21 08:23 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,697 Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB
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When the university was coopted the grant machine bought the science department. Everyone remembers the Military-Industrial Complex warning from Eisenhower. They forget this part: Today, the solitary inventor, tinkering in his shop, has been over shadowed by task forces of scientists in laboratories and testing fields. In the same fashion, the free university, historically the fountainhead of free ideas and scientific discovery, has experienced a revolution in the conduct of research. Partly because of the huge costs involved, a government contract becomes virtually a substitute for intellectual curiosity. For every old blackboard there are now hundreds of new electronic computers.
The prospect of domination of the nation's scholars by Federal employment, project allocations, and the power of money is ever present and is gravely to be regarded.
Yet, in holding scientific research and discovery in respect, as we should, we must also be alert to the equal and opposite danger that public policy could itself become the captive of a scientific-technological elite.
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Re: questioning scientists...
[Re: white marlin]
#7346278
09/02/21 08:37 PM
09/02/21 08:37 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,951 2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Blaine County
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A fundamental part of science is questioning science.
However to properly do it you have to question science with science. YouTube, Facebook, internet memes and the crap spewed by most politicians is not science. And, the "science" from those sources is rarely credible. but what if you're not ALLOWED to question it... and anyway, I'd submit to you that ANYBODY can/SHOULD not only question, but INTERROGATE "science" ! if it's true "Science", it will stand up to scrutiny, regardless of who asks the questions. True? Sure, question it. I think common sense is an important component when questioning science but it does not override data and actual rigorous analysis. And White Marlin, this is not a shot at you. You raised a good point. Science has always been contaminated to a degree by religion, politics and now it's the darn internet. Everybody thinks they are an expert because they watched some YouTube video or skimmed a Facebook meme.
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Re: questioning scientists...
[Re: white marlin]
#7346323
09/02/21 09:37 PM
09/02/21 09:37 PM
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Joined: Dec 2015
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NonPCfed
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Blaine County- Have you ever published in a peer-review journal...?
I just got back a review that had 4 reviewers. Not one questioned the results I had presented. One of their largest criticisms was there was nothing "new" here, a couple insisted that what I was showing was commonly available, which it isn't given our scope of discussion, frequency of observations, or length of time. The other major criticism when bunched together were questions about the overall project which has been published in several other articles in other journals that none of these people had read or tried to read after I gave them the citations. My geo-statistician, who is far more published than me, said all the reviewers were superficial and we could have easily addressed their concerns. But no, the editor has better things to do and won't answer my e-mail. I guess we move on after Labor Day. This is after two "higher impact" journals wouldn't even send the manuscript out for review. I guess its not sexy enough of a topic or not enough chicken-little attitude about it. Peer review is generally the luck of the draw.
People are still people, and with most "prestigious" people its more about them getting their egos stroked than anything else. My paper will get published, it will just take more time to play the game...
"And God said, Let us make man in our image �and let them have dominion �and all the creatures that move along the ground". Genesis 1:26
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Re: questioning scientists...
[Re: white marlin]
#7346368
09/02/21 10:24 PM
09/02/21 10:24 PM
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Joined: Mar 2019
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maintenanceguy
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We've dumbed down our education system. Specifically science and math. Women and minorities haven't been as successful in these fields - or most likely just not as interested in entering these fields. To solve this problem (that isn't a problem), we're teaching a lot less science in science classes. The less people understand science, the more mystical and amazing it is. Uneducated people don't question scientists - because they aren't able too.
-Ryan
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Re: questioning scientists...
[Re: walleye101]
#7346371
09/02/21 10:25 PM
09/02/21 10:25 PM
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Joined: Jan 2021
Posts: 265 PA
Flint Lock
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The new secular religion, science and government. I see it everyday, they just won't admit that its their religion... Couldn't agree more. A local Christian radio station did a segment a couple months ago about "scientism". I wish I could remember the speaker, it was very well done. Unfortunately science has been politicized like everything else. That is more true than most realize. I close member of my family is a scientist, and for all his academic training and credentials, his scientific opinions are very much influenced by his world view. You can guess which end of the spectrum that is.
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Re: questioning scientists...
[Re: white marlin]
#7346384
09/02/21 10:39 PM
09/02/21 10:39 PM
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,658 Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30
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Not all science.
If you don't question a doctor that states that there are only two genders... and that that is proven by X and Y chromosomes... you are a bigot.
Science is only infallible when it supports the left's agenda.
~~Proud Ultra MAGA~~
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Re: questioning scientists...
[Re: white marlin]
#7346398
09/02/21 10:48 PM
09/02/21 10:48 PM
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J Staton
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J Staton
Unregistered
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My favorite don't dare follow the science subject has to do with the unborn. The same clowns spewing follow the science vehemently defend not following the science in this situation.
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Re: questioning scientists...
[Re: NonPCfed]
#7346421
09/02/21 11:20 PM
09/02/21 11:20 PM
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,951 2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Blaine County
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Blaine County- Have you ever published in a peer-review journal...?
I just got back a review that had 4 reviewers. Not one questioned the results I had presented. One of their largest criticisms was there was nothing "new" here, a couple insisted that what I was showing was commonly available, which it isn't given our scope of discussion, frequency of observations, or length of time. The other major criticism when bunched together were questions about the overall project which has been published in several other articles in other journals that none of these people had read or tried to read after I gave them the citations. My geo-statistician, who is far more published than me, said all the reviewers were superficial and we could have easily addressed their concerns. But no, the editor has better things to do and won't answer my e-mail. I guess we move on after Labor Day. This is after two "higher impact" journals wouldn't even send the manuscript out for review. I guess its not sexy enough of a topic or not enough chicken-little attitude about it. Peer review is generally the luck of the draw.
People are still people, and with most "prestigious" people its more about them getting their egos stroked than anything else. My paper will get published, it will just take more time to play the game... No. And, by the way, the peer review process has not been great for science.
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Re: questioning scientists...
[Re: white marlin]
#7346449
09/02/21 11:58 PM
09/02/21 11:58 PM
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Joined: Dec 2015
Posts: 6,355 se South Dakota
NonPCfed
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Peer review in the way it's presented to the public is what hasnt been good for science. Especially since in today's world where most people would be lucky to get past the abstract of any study. Most people could "get" my abstracts because I'm not over technical and I'm anomaly, I actually remember who pays me in the end ...
"And God said, Let us make man in our image �and let them have dominion �and all the creatures that move along the ground". Genesis 1:26
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Re: questioning scientists...
[Re: NonPCfed]
#7346458
09/03/21 12:16 AM
09/03/21 12:16 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 17,697 Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERBBB
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Peer review in the way it's presented to the public is what hasnt been good for science. Especially since in today's world where most people would be lucky to get past the abstract of any study. Most people could "get" my abstracts because I'm not over technical and I'm anomaly, I actually remember who pays me in the end ... It's not so much about getting it..it's the ability to keep reading past the first paragraph. Not the author's fault generally.
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