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Immigration Christian Theology #7395682
11/03/21 10:18 AM
11/03/21 10:18 AM

M
Mark June OP
Unregistered
Mark June OP
Unregistered
M



With immigration being such a tinderbox divisive issue in our land, one of my professors gave our class an assignment to visit this issue from a Christian perspective.
My submission was in the form of a five minute video.

Thought I'd share it with my trapping brothers and sisters;



Blessings,
Mark

Re: Immigration Christian Theology [Re: ] #7395714
11/03/21 10:46 AM
11/03/21 10:46 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,948
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Blaine County Offline
trapper
Blaine County  Offline
trapper

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,948
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Good video Mark.

Considering Jesus was an immigrant and a refugee, I bet he would have a very unfavorable opinion of how some Christians talk and feel about "illegals." I missed the anti-immigrant verses in the New Testament--but I am Catholic and, well, you know how we sometimes skipped over the details....

By the way, I am in no way advocating that we just open up the borders for everyone.

Re: Immigration Christian Theology [Re: ] #7395718
11/03/21 10:51 AM
11/03/21 10:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,200
Eau Claire Wi
Trap Setter Offline
trapper
Trap Setter  Offline
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Posts: 4,200
Eau Claire Wi
Ok? So you seem to believe if the entire population of the world packed inside the borders of these United States it would be good/ordained by God. Is that what I am seeing? It seems free will is left out of your equation. I am not trying to put words into your mouth just trying to find meaning in your short video. Are you saying everything is controlled by God and if so, do you believe Satan has no power in the minds and actions of people? It seems to me in my very limited understanding of the Bible that free will has many times gone against the wishes of The All Mighty. In the end God moves the hearts of man but are you suggesting God planned to burn Soddum and Gamora or the hearts of man forced his hand? I believe God knows all that has been and all that will be but that dosen't mean he controls everything that happens just that he sees all the possibilities and steps in when necessary.

Have I missed the whole point?

I thought the video was well made and definitely makes a person think but again I don't see your opinion clearly defined in it.


Life sure is tough when you don't learn from the mistakes of others.
Re: Immigration Christian Theology [Re: Trap Setter] #7395721
11/03/21 10:55 AM
11/03/21 10:55 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,609
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Online content
trapper
yotetrapper30  Online Content
trapper

Joined: May 2011
Posts: 16,609
Oakland, MS
Originally Posted by Trap Setter


I thought the video was well made and definitely makes a person think but again I don't see your opinion clearly defined in it.


This. It's a well made video but if your assignment was to show your opinion, I'm not sure you did.


~~Proud Ultra MAGA~~
Re: Immigration Christian Theology [Re: ] #7395739
11/03/21 11:28 AM
11/03/21 11:28 AM

M
Mark June OP
Unregistered
Mark June OP
Unregistered
M



My thesis was stated: we are all from Adam.
It's a short assignment with biblical narrative; all came from one > the all came together to rebel against God and make their name great > God scattered them.
Christians are prescribed by biblical text to obey the laws and show mercy to all others made as we are, in the image of God.

Appreciate the comments very much.

The narrative in today's media is so far out of bounds, people don't even get a proper perspective. >>>> because the only sausage the MSM makes is politics.

Blessings,
Mark

Re: Immigration Christian Theology [Re: ] #7395744
11/03/21 11:33 AM
11/03/21 11:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,948
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
Blaine County Offline
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Blaine County  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,948
2A Sanctuaries-W. OK & N. NM
I think you made your point, Mark.

Re: Immigration Christian Theology [Re: ] #7395774
11/03/21 12:23 PM
11/03/21 12:23 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,888
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,888
williamsburg ks
I got no problems with mercy or immigrants. Been saying for a long time if it was easier for the guy who just wants a chance to earn honest money and take care of his family to come here legally, it might be easier to keep out some of the outlaws and deadbeats. Quite frankly we could use an infusion of people who want to work and earn honest money.

Last edited by danny clifton; 11/03/21 12:24 PM.

Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Immigration Christian Theology [Re: ] #7395780
11/03/21 12:26 PM
11/03/21 12:26 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,888
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,888
williamsburg ks
P.S. people who want to EARN are not communists.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Immigration Christian Theology [Re: Blaine County] #7395784
11/03/21 12:29 PM
11/03/21 12:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,155
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Yes sir  Offline
"Callie's little brother"
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Posts: 10,155
Marion Kansas
Didn't really address the issue in any meaningful way from my perspective

Re: Immigration Christian Theology [Re: ] #7395802
11/03/21 12:57 PM
11/03/21 12:57 PM

M
Mark June OP
Unregistered
Mark June OP
Unregistered
M



Most people want a political stance but a biblical perspective calls for, as John Piper says, Obey the Law, and Show Mercy.
Both of those are biblical as can be.

Re: Immigration Christian Theology [Re: ] #7395830
11/03/21 01:33 PM
11/03/21 01:33 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,200
Eau Claire Wi
Trap Setter Offline
trapper
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Eau Claire Wi
Ok Mark, I have been thinking about this video while I work and I see your thesis. We are all from Adam but I don't see what that has to with immigration. I think the point you make with "give unto Cesar what is Cesar's" or we must follow the laws of man, is illegal immigration illegal and immoral in the eyes of God? Then you show a passage of how everyone spoke one language and they came together to make themselves greater than God so he scattered them, are you saying we should keep separate as that what God decreed? I don't understand what the theology of the cross section has to do with immigration. Then it goes to we believers are all citizens of God's house, so since earth is part of God's house are we all free citizens of the earth free to move around without restrictions but only Christians? If that is the case then why to have the Cesar reference included? Then it says we believers have the opportunity to share the gospel and again not sure how that ties into immigration. Then it says "These people are part of the plan of God for the unfolding of history", again no clue in that line if immigration is good or bad in eyes of Christians. Then John 3:16? Not clear why? Then a prayer for God's help balancing responsibility. The video goes on to reiterate we are all children of God, followed by the fact we will all be judged in the end times. Then it ends.

So I ask again, have I missed the whole point or where is your opinion on immigration from the Christian perspective. I get we are all from Adam but what does that have to do with socioeconomic borders and unchecked borders?

Last edited by Trap Setter; 11/03/21 01:34 PM.

Life sure is tough when you don't learn from the mistakes of others.
Re: Immigration Christian Theology [Re: ] #7395835
11/03/21 01:36 PM
11/03/21 01:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 218
South Dakota
M
M.S. Pickins Offline
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M.S. Pickins  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2018
Posts: 218
South Dakota
I am skeptical that Jesus will help me when my wife is bent over a table by some Mexican and I'm being lined up against the wall. It happens to minorities around the world, and whites will be a minority in my lifetime. Some say that during his travels, Jesus went to what is now Ireland and learned many things from the druids. We need to revert back to paganism to save us, Christianity was forced upon our European ancestors by the sword. I would say they were not as impressed by the Bible as we are now.

Re: Immigration Christian Theology [Re: ] #7395842
11/03/21 01:50 PM
11/03/21 01:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,888
williamsburg ks
D
danny clifton Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
danny clifton  Offline
"Grumpy Old Man"
D

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 29,888
williamsburg ks
Well, pretty much everything we know about the druids came from roman writing. Druids didnt really write much. If at all. Lots of controversy there. I doubt the veracity of the roman accounts. They were outside looking in. I dont think modern pagans are true to druid beliefs anymore than modern christians are practicing the same faith as early christians. Christianity forced by conquerors is a given though. Forced Christianity just recently ended in Canada and Australia. Now we are importing Muslims. They certainly have no problems with violence toward unbelievers.


None of that has anything to do with Marks video though.


Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
Re: Immigration Christian Theology [Re: ] #7395851
11/03/21 02:19 PM
11/03/21 02:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,155
Marion Kansas
Y
Yes sir Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Yes sir  Offline
"Callie's little brother"
Y

Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 10,155
Marion Kansas
Originally Posted by Mark June
Most people want a political stance but a biblical perspective calls for, as John Piper says, Obey the Law, and Show Mercy.
Both of those are biblical as can be.


Kind of like paint in a can: doesn't make much of a picture until you apply it in some way

Re: Immigration Christian Theology [Re: M.S. Pickins] #7395857
11/03/21 02:34 PM
11/03/21 02:34 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15,686
Champaign County, Ohio.
K
KeithC Offline
trapper
KeithC  Offline
trapper
K

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 15,686
Champaign County, Ohio.
Originally Posted by M.S. Pickins
I am skeptical that Jesus will help me when my wife is bent over a table by some Mexican and I'm being lined up against the wall. It happens to minorities around the world, and whites will be a minority in my lifetime. Some say that during his travels, Jesus went to what is now Ireland and learned many things from the druids. We need to revert back to paganism to save us, Christianity was forced upon our European ancestors by the sword. I would say they were not as impressed by the Bible as we are now.


The historical record, in the genealogy reports shows that Jesus was mostly in Cornwall and Wales, when he was traveling with his uncle and father in law, Joseph of Arimethea. Joseph owned tin mines in Cornwall, which is where his wealth came from. Joseph and Jesus had relatives that moved there from Israel 6 generations earlier. The Druids their family married into, that Jesus's descendants are descended from, are mostly from Wales.

All European royalty has Jesus in their pedigree. This is where the divine right of kings came from. It's possible that Jesus was added to their pedigrees to help control the people. If so, they did an incredibly thorough job of it, with an incredible amount of supporting detail added.

Keith

Re: Immigration Christian Theology [Re: Trap Setter] #7395859
11/03/21 02:36 PM
11/03/21 02:36 PM

M
Mark June OP
Unregistered
Mark June OP
Unregistered
M



Originally Posted by Trap Setter
Ok Mark, I have been thinking about this video while I work and I see your thesis. We are all from Adam but I don't see what that has to with immigration. I think the point you make with "give unto Cesar what is Cesar's" or we must follow the laws of man, is illegal immigration illegal and immoral in the eyes of God? Then you show a passage of how everyone spoke one language and they came together to make themselves greater than God so he scattered them, are you saying we should keep separate as that what God decreed? I don't understand what the theology of the cross section has to do with immigration. Then it goes to we believers are all citizens of God's house, so since earth is part of God's house are we all free citizens of the earth free to move around without restrictions but only Christians? If that is the case then why to have the Cesar reference included? Then it says we believers have the opportunity to share the gospel and again not sure how that ties into immigration. Then it says "These people are part of the plan of God for the unfolding of history", again no clue in that line if immigration is good or bad in eyes of Christians. Then John 3:16? Not clear why? Then a prayer for God's help balancing responsibility. The video goes on to reiterate we are all children of God, followed by the fact we will all be judged in the end times. Then it ends.

So I ask again, have I missed the whole point or where is your opinion on immigration from the Christian perspective. I get we are all from Adam but what does that have to do with socioeconomic borders and unchecked borders?


TrapSetter,
A bunch of questions and it seems you want what most followers of Christ demand... an answer.
The answer for each of us in within us.
My video is just that. My perspective from Scripture.
It isn't meant to sell, barter, trade, or convict anyone and you seem to want to know the selling point?

If you think being of Adam means nothing to the believer then you missed the key piece of the Gospel.
Mercy begins with allowing and listening each human's story.
Condemnation says I don't need or want or have to.

Missionaries have gone out from America for over 200 years in a big way.
Now, the world comes to us.

But then again it always has.
America is a land of immigrants.

Blessings,
Mark

Re: Immigration Christian Theology [Re: ] #7395866
11/03/21 02:53 PM
11/03/21 02:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,200
Eau Claire Wi
Trap Setter Offline
trapper
Trap Setter  Offline
trapper

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 4,200
Eau Claire Wi
So I didn't miss the point. We are all humans created in God's image and there is no guide for immigration in theology.


Life sure is tough when you don't learn from the mistakes of others.
Re: Immigration Christian Theology [Re: ] #7395873
11/03/21 03:04 PM
11/03/21 03:04 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,725
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
T
Trapper7 Offline
trapper
Trapper7  Offline
trapper
T

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,725
MN, Land of 10,000 Lakes
Originally Posted by Mark June
My thesis was stated: we are all from Adam.
It's a short assignment with biblical narrative; all came from one > the all came together to rebel against God and make their name great > God scattered them.
Christians are prescribed by biblical text to obey the laws and show mercy to all others made as we are, in the image of God.

Appreciate the comments very much.

The narrative in today's media is so far out of bounds, people don't even get a proper perspective. >>>> because the only sausage the MSM makes is politics.

Blessings,
Mark

I agree with showing mercy to all others made as we are. But, I feel we need to first take care of those Americans living in poverty.
Giving immigrants $450,000 per person because they were separated during the Trump administration sure isn't doing much to help American-born citizens living in poverty. That's just common sense that God expects us to make use of.


The difference between animals and humans is that animals would never let the dumbest ones lead the pack.
Re: Immigration Christian Theology [Re: Trap Setter] #7395874
11/03/21 03:05 PM
11/03/21 03:05 PM

M
Mark June OP
Unregistered
Mark June OP
Unregistered
M



Originally Posted by Trap Setter
So I didn't miss the point. We are all humans created in God's image and there is no guide for immigration in theology.


You missed the point I think.

Nation building is only 700 years old or so, so this Biblical perspective was a big "Older" than maybe what you'd have me say?
A guide for immigration?
It's the first part of your sentence.

The second part is WDC. WDC can't keep up with the flow, not because it's overwhelming, but because the pencil pushers aren't very efficient.



Re: Immigration Christian Theology [Re: Trapper7] #7395875
11/03/21 03:07 PM
11/03/21 03:07 PM

M
Mark June OP
Unregistered
Mark June OP
Unregistered
M



Originally Posted by Trapper7
Originally Posted by Mark June
My thesis was stated: we are all from Adam.
It's a short assignment with biblical narrative; all came from one > the all came together to rebel against God and make their name great > God scattered them.
Christians are prescribed by biblical text to obey the laws and show mercy to all others made as we are, in the image of God.

Appreciate the comments very much.

The narrative in today's media is so far out of bounds, people don't even get a proper perspective. >>>> because the only sausage the MSM makes is politics.

Blessings,
Mark

I agree with showing mercy to all others made as we are. But, I feel we need to first take care of those Americans living in poverty.
Giving immigrants $450,000 per person because they were separated during the Trump administration sure isn't doing much to help American-born citizens living in poverty. That's just common sense that God expects us to make use of.


If we mix the political in with the biblical it's a whole new ball game.

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