I'm just curious does standard LEO ever do some form of force on force training ? I know it's different district to district but I'm curious is this like a thing for LEO in general.

Yes.

Would you mind expanding on some common forms of this ?

Can you define “force on force”?

Sorry Wd91, too various, extensive, and exhaustive on the subject.

We trained with simunitions so the bad guys shot back. We would train for high risk traffic stops, building searches and active shooter types of situations. We used .223 and 9mm simmunitions and trust me they freaken hurt. We learned to correct our bad habits real quick..

Basically you using a group of equally trained or higher trained personal to act as the bad guys while your good guys ( your soldiers or whoever) try to complete a given task. Not the best definition. But like when we did it it would but like we'd hav a mission to do a patrol. Op four ( the bad guys ) would be tasked with testing us some kinda way to make sure we're thinking on our feet following ROE properly ect. So like we'd go into a mock town and they would randomly open up or someone runs up acting like they may have a bomb vest on or something like that and we'd have to react to that . After wards we'd be graded and have AAR where we'd discuss what went wrong what was right what needs to be improved on ect.

Intresting ,that's what I was curious about.

SJA I understand thank you

3 months at the Academy longer now everything from verbal judo to PPCT (Hand to Hand), sim guns, traffic stops, simulators and getting pepper sprayed.

Just a layman who tries to stay current on things around me but yes force on force training is done. However, like most things across our varied society it varies by region and budget. I believe all states and/or large municipalities have accredited training academies with approved curricula for such training. Once in the field I'm sure there are requirements for continuing education. But like all professional fields I'm sure there are varying levels of quality or disciplines within that training. And I'm quite sure there may even be political axes being ground as well.

Fortunately, the martial arts have a rather demanding real world pass or fail standard and I would think by large it's training of a good sort.

and getting tased with 50,000 volts

I went through the police academy back in 1995. We did lots of simulations, that you would call force on force, on each other and against experienced officers, mostly the sergeants, lieutenants and detectives, who trained us. We did shoot outs, traffic stops, simulated riots and building sweeping. We shot each other with "lipstick rounds", which are a hard, marking projectile, that you can shoot through a regular firearm, without modifying it. The rounds leave a lipstick red residue, on whatever they hit and often a light bruise.

The cadets I was paired with and I were able to "kill" every officer that approached, including our instructors, in all the traffic stops I played the "bad guy" in. I won't explain how I did it. It's incredibly easy to do and there's no way to avoid it unless the car is shot apart from a distance. I got killed in most of the traffic stops, with multiple assailants in the vehicles. It's amazing and fortunate that many more police officers are not killed during traffic stops.

The cadet I was partnered with and I were the only team to twice, successfully clear all 6 rooms, that had 4 "bad guys" hiding in them, in a boarded up school without getting shot. Most of the drills were designed for us to fail at first. The drills were also designed to put a healthy fear in us to be cautious. I don't like losing. I came up with an idea and threw a garbage can into the rooms, before we entered on the first go through of the 6 rooms, which flushed our instructors out into trying to shoot us, where we could blind them with our stingers and shoot them instead, which we did.

The second go through, after the reset, our instructors were all ready for my trick with the garbage cans and did not move when I threw the can in. I knew they would expect me to do it again, so I threw 2 cans into the first room instead. That worked on the first two "bad guys" who were together in that room. The next "bad guy", in the next room heard my new trick, figured it out and stayed still. I didn't think the room was empty, so I left my light off and crouched down on the floor by the door and had my partner rush in and run to the opposite side. As soon as my partner rushed loudly across the room, I stretched in low. The "bad guy" shot and missed my partner and I Iit the "bad guy" up with my stinger and shot him. We both went straight into the next room, which was was empty, as I kicked a garbage can in. We did the same on the fourth room and both shot the remaining "bad guy".

It worked and was fun, but in a real situation, I would want flash bangs, dogs or tear gas..

Keith

I once heard said of those type fights that if you ain't cheating you ain't winning.

And the only good gun fight is the one you're able to walk away from.

Dothan Alabama has a "28,130-square-foot Education and Training Building and includes an array of scenario-specific resources designed to simulate, with crucial accuracy, the emergency situations first responders are likely to face". I suppose that there are similar facilities around the country.

Basic Information; https://wiregrasspublicsafety.org/

Training Facilities: https://wiregrasspublicsafety.org/training-props/

We had guys that wore their vests to sim training so we shot them in the legs during the training

How much of a handicap did they give you in verbal judo? lol

Jim

Shots to the extremities can be effective. Just ask Grosscruetz. LOL