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Re: COYOTE CARNAGE – SOUTH TEXAS BRUSH COUNTRY [Re: TEJAS] #7557025
04/13/22 08:14 AM
04/13/22 08:14 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,402
Northern Illinois
M
MChewk Offline
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MChewk  Offline
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M

Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 10,402
Northern Illinois
Can you say GH3? Lol I agree Gary and Rob...change up attractors like the old reliable urine and droppings usually works in those cases. That’s why gang setting is so valuable...several different smelling sets at hot locations. I will add that having the ability to PICK UP those attractors via a container of sorts or like a toy
can help in habituation. Just my take

Re: COYOTE CARNAGE – SOUTH TEXAS BRUSH COUNTRY [Re: TEJAS] #7557128
04/13/22 10:30 AM
04/13/22 10:30 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 1,527
Nebraska
silkyplainscoyot Offline
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silkyplainscoyot  Offline
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Posts: 1,527
Nebraska
I've seen it happen where a certain product is hot 1 year but not the next. I've also seen where certain products are hot every year and consistently produce. I'm not sure it's habituation to a certain lure. You know your sets are being avoided but is it because of a certain lure? Maybe sometimes, but how can pups the following year be habituated to it? I think it's perhaps because of some other reason we don't quite understand. Maybe there were certain things going on in their diet they were lacking that year so their bodies craved what was in a particular lure. We know different weather or times of the year can change how they react to some products. I'm not trying to disagree that they may become habituated, but perhaps there's more to it than we understand. Anyhow, I don't get too caught up in the habituation thing but if it's not producing change it up.

Re: COYOTE CARNAGE – SOUTH TEXAS BRUSH COUNTRY [Re: TEJAS] #7557176
04/13/22 11:15 AM
04/13/22 11:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,030
E central Il
G
Golf ball Offline
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Golf ball  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,030
E central Il
^^^ that last statement should be looked at as the most productive method. If that makes sense .

Re: COYOTE CARNAGE – SOUTH TEXAS BRUSH COUNTRY [Re: silkyplainscoyot] #7557526
04/13/22 05:50 PM
04/13/22 05:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,778
Nevadafornia
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Lazarus Offline
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Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 3,778
Nevadafornia
Originally Posted by silkyplainscoyot
I've seen it happen where a certain product is hot 1 year but not the next. I've also seen where certain products are hot every year and consistently produce. I'm not sure it's habituation to a certain lure. You know your sets are being avoided but is it because of a certain lure? Maybe sometimes, but how can pups the following year be habituated to it? I think it's perhaps because of some other reason we don't quite understand. Maybe there were certain things going on in their diet they were lacking that year so their bodies craved what was in a particular lure. We know different weather or times of the year can change how they react to some products. I'm not trying to disagree that they may become habituated, but perhaps there's more to it than we understand. Anyhow, I don't get too caught up in the habituation thing but if it's not producing change it up.


You make some good points about the behavior we call habituation. We probably won't know all the reasons WHY it happens, we just know that it does happen.

One reason I interpret from that behavior is that most trappers don't pick up their lure or bait sticks at the end of the season. When I'm scouting for cats in the spring and summer, I'm always coming across old cat sets (I only trap public land), and I watch my dog. Some sets are so old he doesn't pay attention to them; some are recent enough he will eventually track down the lure stick and give it the once over. Occasionally I can see wet spots on the lure sticks and I can even identify the lure sometimes by holding it up to my nose.

One of the elements of a good lure is the element of novelty. If the critter has smelled that odor 1,000 times before, it may not have the same attraction or appeal as getting that first whiff of a new smell.

Re: COYOTE CARNAGE – SOUTH TEXAS BRUSH COUNTRY [Re: TEJAS] #7558947
04/15/22 09:01 AM
04/15/22 09:01 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,483
South Texas Brush Country
TEJAS Offline OP
trapper
TEJAS  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,483
South Texas Brush Country

Good Coyote Conversation Fellas!


I believe the novelty of most new smells and looks can be lost very quickly. The thrill is gone so to speak.

A lot of that depends on how much time you spend in one area. Another factor is how much pressure those coyotes have been under in the past.


A lure gives the promise of a reward in many cases but never delivers.

Coyotes catch on to that fact extremely quick.


Good bait is a whole different story. It offers the potential for a reward based on past experiences with that particular smell. On the flip side, the visual can often negate the olfactory like in the case of a baited dirt hole set.

I have little doubt that coyotes catch on to the look of certain repeated visuals like your standard dirt hole. If that is the case, I don’t see any reason why they can’t make that same type of connection with smells on the olfactory side of things. It might even be an easier link to make than the visual.

Aside from habituation, if a coyote passes by a host of caught canines with the same distinct lure smell present I don’t think it takes them long to make that association as well. As with numerous other behaviors, I believe many of the pups learn to avoid what mom was shown too many times.

I try my best to keep them guessing on looks and smells so those associations are less likely to be made. By doing this their higher education stays at a minimum, the line produces to its potential, and less time is lost trying to pick up additional problem coyotes that have caught on to the game plan.

Re: COYOTE CARNAGE – SOUTH TEXAS BRUSH COUNTRY [Re: TEJAS] #7558983
04/15/22 09:31 AM
04/15/22 09:31 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 186
Northern Nevada
O
Old coy Offline
trapper
Old coy  Offline
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O

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 186
Northern Nevada
I have to admit to doing most of the “wrong things” you all have discussed. Using the same lures, baits, and sets for several years now. In order to change things up is it enough to just change to a different bait base and lures from the same manufacturer? Or should you go to a totally different line of bait/lure?
Moving set locations might be harder to do. I usually make a dirt hole and a flat set of some type at the same area. Many times using the same hole for several years. I don’t pick up lures or cover holes but do pick up bones. Probably should do better!

Re: COYOTE CARNAGE – SOUTH TEXAS BRUSH COUNTRY [Re: MChewk] #7560036
04/16/22 06:48 AM
04/16/22 06:48 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
T
trappergbus Offline
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
Originally Posted by MChewk
Can you say GH3? Lol I agree Gary and Rob...change up attractors like the old reliable urine and droppings usually works in those cases. That’s why gang setting is so valuable...several different smelling sets at hot locations. I will add that having the ability to PICK UP those attractors via a container of sorts or like a toy
can help in habituation. Just my take

GH3 worked but not like when GH2 first was released. I take everything with me, I even throw the rocks LOL. The best G&Ds have teeth marks. I don't dig holes partly for that reason. Gang setting flat works. It takes a lot of gear but it's worth it. When a location goes dead look 30 - 50 feet downwind. that's were new sets go. Their light is yellow so low-key flats seem to do best.
A female coyote can teach multiple litters to avoid danger. Then when she's gone the pups that learned carry that to the next generation. Maybe?

I have multiple lures that work well but I give a few a vacation and try new stuff every season. Does it matter? We can only speculate; we will really never know for sure. Intrigue is a biggy too. Dang coyotes anyway!

Awesome thread James

Last edited by trappergbus; 04/16/22 07:07 AM.

Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..
Re: COYOTE CARNAGE – SOUTH TEXAS BRUSH COUNTRY [Re: Old coy] #7560274
04/16/22 10:58 AM
04/16/22 10:58 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,483
South Texas Brush Country
TEJAS Offline OP
trapper
TEJAS  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,483
South Texas Brush Country

Originally Posted by Old coy
In order to change things up is it enough to just change to a different bait base and lures from the same manufacturer? Or should you go to a totally different line of bait/lure?

Moving set locations might be harder to do. I usually make a dirt hole and a flat set of some type at the same area. Many times using the same hole for several years. I don’t pick up lures or cover holes but do pick up bones.


Whether you decide to use different smells from the same lure maker or switch to another brand, a new smell is a still new smell. I like to try what different makers have to offer.

If your bait has extra ingredients added it will probably have a distinct smell just like any other lure. When it comes to commercial baits you really have no idea what’s in them. I think those unnatural curiosity smells that are often times added to the mix can possibly make a coyote shy away from a spiked bait.

I have found that good fresh bait with only sodium benzoate added never loses its appeal.


I wouldn’t worry too much about removing bait as much as I would about removing the lure.

Even if you only move the set location a few yards it can often times make a big difference.

Keep in mind if you pour lure on the ground on down he hole like many other trappers, you no longer have the option to remove it.


Re: COYOTE CARNAGE – SOUTH TEXAS BRUSH COUNTRY [Re: TEJAS] #7560317
04/16/22 11:45 AM
04/16/22 11:45 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 7,089
Northern Mn
rick olson Online content
trapper
rick olson  Online Content
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 7,089
Northern Mn
Most commercial baits are lure's in my opinion glands musk added to most so bait has become a good lure.Bait and good urine is hard too beat,commercial or natural.

Re: COYOTE CARNAGE – SOUTH TEXAS BRUSH COUNTRY [Re: TEJAS] #7560368
04/16/22 12:30 PM
04/16/22 12:30 PM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 186
Northern Nevada
O
Old coy Offline
trapper
Old coy  Offline
trapper
O

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 186
Northern Nevada
Thanks for the explanations! This fall will be time to change some things up. Think I will break out the Lucero lures I have had on the shelf!

Re: COYOTE CARNAGE – SOUTH TEXAS BRUSH COUNTRY [Re: Old coy] #7561257
04/17/22 09:47 AM
04/17/22 09:47 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,483
South Texas Brush Country
TEJAS Offline OP
trapper
TEJAS  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,483
South Texas Brush Country

Originally Posted by Old coy
Thanks for the explanations! This fall will be time to change some things up. Think I will break out the Lucero lures I have had on the shelf!


Sounds like a solid plan Coy!.

Mr. Lucero’s lures have remained my top three producers since I started using them.

JL#1 has held the top spot, with Coyotero and Winter Wolf fighting for runner up.

I haven’t pulled out Night Train yet because his Big Three have continued to crush coyotes.

I still rotate a good number of other proven smells to hold interest and not burn up any one lure.

Out of all the attractants I use each year, Mr. Lucero’s continue to hold the top three positions.

Re: COYOTE CARNAGE – SOUTH TEXAS BRUSH COUNTRY [Re: TEJAS] #7561289
04/17/22 10:07 AM
04/17/22 10:07 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 186
Northern Nevada
O
Old coy Offline
trapper
Old coy  Offline
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O

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 186
Northern Nevada
The Big 3 are what’s on my shelf! Andy’s Western Lure will still have a slot in the bag!
Thanks for doing this thread!!

Re: COYOTE CARNAGE – SOUTH TEXAS BRUSH COUNTRY [Re: TEJAS] #7562083
04/18/22 07:56 AM
04/18/22 07:56 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
T
trappergbus Offline
trapper
trappergbus  Offline
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T

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
What Laz stated about the first whiff is priceless.

The best sets Known to man all have one thing in common, A focal point. The best advise I've ever got was give them a target to focus on.


Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..
Re: COYOTE CARNAGE – SOUTH TEXAS BRUSH COUNTRY [Re: TEJAS] #7562238
04/18/22 11:46 AM
04/18/22 11:46 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,030
E central Il
G
Golf ball Offline
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Golf ball  Offline
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G

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,030
E central Il
Ding ding ding ! Pretty hard to direct they’re feet without directing they’re attention. Most of my remakes become walk through sets of some sort . Otherwise I try to get they’re feet where I want them by putting the eyes and nose where I want . Even a walk through gives them some direction.

Re: COYOTE CARNAGE – SOUTH TEXAS BRUSH COUNTRY [Re: trappergbus] #7563195
04/19/22 07:48 AM
04/19/22 07:48 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,483
South Texas Brush Country
TEJAS Offline OP
trapper
TEJAS  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,483
South Texas Brush Country

Originally Posted by trappergbus
The best sets Known to man all have one thing in common, A focal point.

The best advice I've ever got was give them a target to focus on.


I agree in part G.

One trapper’s idea of a focal point can be a lot different from another.

I’ve see folks squirt urine all over a large backing and call it good.

In doing so you have created a big focal point that makes it much more difficult to narrow down foot placement.

It’s much easier to determine pan placement when your attractant is in a pinpoint area.

With that in mind, one focal point will only give you so much foot traffic.

I have found that two attractants properly positioned will create much more foot traffic than a single smell.


For me, the most deadly sets and attractants are the ones that create the most foot traffic.

Re: COYOTE CARNAGE – SOUTH TEXAS BRUSH COUNTRY [Re: TEJAS] #7563248
04/19/22 08:58 AM
04/19/22 08:58 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
T
trappergbus Offline
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trappergbus  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,445
Southern Michigan
The focal points can be multiple, it can be a stick with lure or a squirt of urine. Or a dropping, you'll never see me spray urine all over. Their good shots LOL. Some say if the lure is good others aren't needed, you and I know better from seeing what actually happens at and around the sets. I've been experimenting with double grass clumps to get extra paw traffic, still haven't perfected that but I'm getting close. grin


Common sense catches alot of fur..
Pay homage to all you harvest..
Re: COYOTE CARNAGE – SOUTH TEXAS BRUSH COUNTRY [Re: TEJAS] #7565253
04/21/22 07:24 AM
04/21/22 07:24 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,483
South Texas Brush Country
TEJAS Offline OP
trapper
TEJAS  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,483
South Texas Brush Country

This male was caught at the entrance to an old bone yard.

[Linked Image]


The lure was made by a good friend and trapper from Montana.

It is a straight female coyote gland.

[Linked Image]

Male – Flat Set – Female Coyote Gland – G-Dog Urine

Re: COYOTE CARNAGE – SOUTH TEXAS BRUSH COUNTRY [Re: TEJAS] #7565277
04/21/22 07:50 AM
04/21/22 07:50 AM
Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,483
South Texas Brush Country
TEJAS Offline OP
trapper
TEJAS  Offline OP
trapper

Joined: Jul 2017
Posts: 1,483
South Texas Brush Country

How about a little Coyote Crew Q & A?

When it comes to catching adult coyotes, in what order would you rank these sets according to their effectiveness on your own individual lines?

Toy Set
Flat Set
Dirt Hole
Blind Set
Scent Post

Re: COYOTE CARNAGE – SOUTH TEXAS BRUSH COUNTRY [Re: TEJAS] #7565378
04/21/22 09:59 AM
04/21/22 09:59 AM
Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,030
E central Il
G
Golf ball Offline
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Golf ball  Offline
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G

Joined: Dec 2014
Posts: 3,030
E central Il
I can’t answer without explaining that my dirt holes double as a urine set as I not only drill a hole with bait in it I also use coyote urine at the backing ( however subtle it may be ) . The dirt hole is my most productive set , but keep in mind I consider a cached set a dirt hole, or should I say the original dirt hole . The second most productive set is what I call a flat set . You may call it a toy set as I use a pipe to put bait in . You should also know the pipe is nearly invisible as I drive it into a clump of sod or cornstalk root or ..... some may call this same set a grab and die because the pipe is not easy to pull from the ground. These two types of sets and a variety of them ( double dirt holes ) make up about 70 percent of my line finished out with trash mounds and flat sets using a turd and urine or a tuft of grass with a small amount of lure and or urine.

I try and keep it simple and easily repeatable.

I should also mention that my trash mound sets are baited with a hand full of mouse nest stuffed in a hole on the down wind side of the mound.
Most of my locations get 3 sets , each with a different smell .

Re: COYOTE CARNAGE – SOUTH TEXAS BRUSH COUNTRY [Re: TEJAS] #7565403
04/21/22 10:26 AM
04/21/22 10:26 AM
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 186
Northern Nevada
O
Old coy Offline
trapper
Old coy  Offline
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O

Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 186
Northern Nevada
My list would be:
Flat set
Dirt hole
Scent post
Toy set
Blind set

Flat sets are a combo of walk throughs. Using any lure that isn’t, as far as I know, straight gland.

Scent posts are made using, what I believe to be, a straight gland lure and urine.

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