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Re: Congress going to fund stock market [Re: jbyrd63] #7571123
04/27/22 04:39 PM
04/27/22 04:39 PM
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Posts: 9,378
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
Pretty sure when I fill out a Schedule SE it says "Self Employment Tax "

: an amount of money that a government requires people to pay according to their income, the value of their property, etc., and that is used to pay for the things done by the government

Maybe it is a contribution? smile

Last edited by Dirt; 04/27/22 04:41 PM.

Who is John Galt?
Re: Congress going to fund stock market [Re: Dirt] #7571127
04/27/22 04:43 PM
04/27/22 04:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 9,918
Ky
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jbyrd63 Offline OP
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Ky
Originally Posted by Dirt
Pretty sure when I fill out a Schedule SE it says "Self Employment Tax "

: an amount of money that a government requires people to pay according to their income, the value of their property, etc., and that is used to pay for the things done by the government

Maybe it is a contribution? smile


^^^^^^ yep

Re: Congress going to fund stock market [Re: jbyrd63] #7571134
04/27/22 04:48 PM
04/27/22 04:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,378
Armpit, ak
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"Most people work for someone else, and their Social Security taxes are automatically taken out of their paycheck and sent to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS). When this is the case, the tax gets split between the employee and employer, with each party paying half of what’s owed."


Who is John Galt?
Re: Congress going to fund stock market [Re: jbyrd63] #7571151
04/27/22 05:26 PM
04/27/22 05:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 33,527
McGrath, AK
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white17 Online content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by jbyrd63


White call it what you want but if it is "mandated" it is a tax in sheeps wool. SS match isn't a "tax" but it is looked at as such because it's mandated. Some businesses won't survive this Mandated NON-TAX
It's 10 or under to not be "FORCED " to pay 3% of a non-tax for the employer......


How is it a tax if the the individual still has the funds under his control ? I could see it being called a tax if the money went to the government.

And no one is FORCED to pay a dime if they opt out.

I agree that this would be really expensive for some small businesses to keep track of. Every time they hire a new employee they would need to let him know about the program and also find out whether he wants in or out. Now, what about an employee that quits and goes to work elsewhere ? Does he have to start a new 401k or does the old one go with him ? He and his new plan administrator need to know how much he has already set aside for the year so he doesn't exceed the annual limits. What about the employer match ?

I think that could be an expensive mess for a lot of small businesses. A real can of worms


Mean As Nails
Re: Congress going to fund stock market [Re: white17] #7571157
04/27/22 05:38 PM
04/27/22 05:38 PM
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East-Central Wisconsin
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Could be the first step in mandating a non social security savings plan and looking down the road that may be what is needed to replace the percentage of income for retirement coming from SS. Sure it is mandated but it would be and end run way to begin the privatization aspect of SS, which is what many want to see happen. With higher wages, inflation and SS not adjusting that fast SS will automatically become a smaller portion of most retirees income. Higher incomes get less weight on the bend system or income system used by SS and as wage increases out strip current SS percentages and caps, lower stipend payments are the outcome Is it the right thing to do? Maybe not, but I think most politicians know and believe that with a rapidly increasing older population, our economy will suffer greatly if many don't have incomes that create GDP. Retirees either spend money or wind up transferring wealth and assets.

Bryce

Re: Congress going to fund stock market [Re: jbyrd63] #7571163
04/27/22 05:48 PM
04/27/22 05:48 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 15,138
Rodney,Ohio
SNIPERB🦝 Offline
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I don't see how pumping money into the stock market staves off a recession. That would require a fair amount of delusion in the economy.

Just smacks of politics and I hate when politicians point to the stock market especially after obvious pumping

Re: Congress going to fund stock market [Re: jbyrd63] #7571165
04/27/22 05:49 PM
04/27/22 05:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,219
MD
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DaveP Offline
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Wife had a business for 28 years.
Offered a 401K to employees with a modest match.
Only ONE employee took advantage of it, and she was getting old.

Rest " couldn't afford to" yet many had new cars, took multiple vacations, nails done, latest I-phone, tatoos, $5 coffee every morning and bought lunch everyday.

We sacrificed, maybe too much.
But Old Dave thanks Young Dave.

Re: Congress going to fund stock market [Re: DaveP] #7571173
04/27/22 06:02 PM
04/27/22 06:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2012
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midland, michigan
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midlander Offline
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midland, michigan
Originally Posted by DaveP
Wife had a business for 28 years.
Offered a 401K to employees with a modest match.
Only ONE employee took advantage of it, and she was getting old.

Rest " couldn't afford to" yet many had new cars, took multiple vacations, nails done, latest I-phone, tatoos, $5 coffee every morning and bought lunch everyday.

We sacrificed, maybe too much.
But Old Dave thanks Young Dave.


X2...see my earlier post

Re: Congress going to fund stock market [Re: DaveP] #7571206
04/27/22 06:36 PM
04/27/22 06:36 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 9,378
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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Armpit, ak
Originally Posted by DaveP
Wife had a business for 28 years.
Offered a 401K to employees with a modest match.
Only ONE employee took advantage of it, and she was getting old.

Rest " couldn't afford to" yet many had new cars, took multiple vacations, nails done, latest I-phone, tatoos, $5 coffee every morning and bought lunch everyday.

We sacrificed, maybe too much.
But Old Dave thanks Young Dave.


These same people will cash out these 401ks first chance they get and blow the money. You can't save people from themselves. crazy


Who is John Galt?
Re: Congress going to fund stock market [Re: Dirt] #7571210
04/27/22 06:39 PM
04/27/22 06:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,219
MD
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DaveP Offline
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MD
Originally Posted by Dirt
Originally Posted by DaveP
Wife had a business for 28 years.
Offered a 401K to employees with a modest match.
Only ONE employee took advantage of it, and she was getting old.

Rest " couldn't afford to" yet many had new cars, took multiple vacations, nails done, latest I-phone, tatoos, $5 coffee every morning and bought lunch everyday.

We sacrificed, maybe too much.
But Old Dave thanks Young Dave.


These same people will cash out these 401ks first chance they get and blow the money. You can't save people from themselves. crazy



But Uncle Sugar keeps bailing them out.
With OUR money.

Stupid is supposed to hurt!

Re: Congress going to fund stock market [Re: jbyrd63] #7571212
04/27/22 06:43 PM
04/27/22 06:43 PM
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Posts: 9,378
Armpit, ak
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Dirt Offline
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You can't take money from irresponsible people and give it to responsible people. They don't have any and we don't need it. smile


Who is John Galt?
Re: Congress going to fund stock market [Re: white17] #7571223
04/27/22 06:56 PM
04/27/22 06:56 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 12,956
Oakland, MS
yotetrapper30 Offline
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Oakland, MS
Originally Posted by white17
Originally Posted by jbyrd63


White call it what you want but if it is "mandated" it is a tax in sheeps wool. SS match isn't a "tax" but it is looked at as such because it's mandated. Some businesses won't survive this Mandated NON-TAX
It's 10 or under to not be "FORCED " to pay 3% of a non-tax for the employer......


How is it a tax if the the individual still has the funds under his control ? I could see it being called a tax if the money went to the government.

And no one is FORCED to pay a dime if they opt out.

I agree that this would be really expensive for some small businesses to keep track of. Every time they hire a new employee they would need to let him know about the program and also find out whether he wants in or out. Now, what about an employee that quits and goes to work elsewhere ? Does he have to start a new 401k or does the old one go with him ? He and his new plan administrator need to know how much he has already set aside for the year so he doesn't exceed the annual limits. What about the employer match ?

I think that could be an expensive mess for a lot of small businesses. A real can of worms


I think he's saying it's a tax on the business owners, not the employees. But I didn't read anything that said that the employer had to match the 3%.


~~Proud Ultra MAGA~~
Re: Congress going to fund stock market [Re: DaveP] #7571237
04/27/22 07:10 PM
04/27/22 07:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 439
WV
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garymc Offline
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Originally Posted by DaveP
Wife had a business for 28 years.
Offered a 401K to employees with a modest match.
Only ONE employee took advantage of it, and she was getting old.

Rest " couldn't afford to" yet many had new cars, took multiple vacations, nails done, latest I-phone, tatoos, $5 coffee every morning and bought lunch everyday.

We sacrificed, maybe too much.
But Old Dave thanks Young Dave.


Spot on with what I see where I work. We have roughly 300 employees and we only have 43% contributing to a 401K. New hires no longer have a pension so they get dollar for dollar match up to 6%. Those of us that have a pension get 0.50 on the dollar match up to 6%.

I started with the company in 1998 a year out of college at a rate of roughly $18.00 an hour. I made the decision to contribute 15% from the beginning and have done that to date and have never missed it. Even though I have a pension (not the greatest), I did not want to rely on it, social security, or anything or anybody else for my retirement. My plan is to take care of it myself and anything else is a bonus. As others have mentioned there has was a lot of sacrifice early on driving used vehicles, eating left overs in my lunch, and on and on. I believe those sacrifices taught me to live modestly and take care of business, which carried on to later in life by paying of a 30 year mortgage in 14 years and living debt free, but still enjoying myself along the way within reason.

I make a DIY trip to Alaska every year fishing with friends and I always hear the “ it must be nice” from somebody at work every year. Those same people are the ones that always have to have the latest IPhone, trade vehicles every two years, or one example was a close coworker that went out to lunch for fast food every work day. I told him to bring left overs in his lunch every day for a year and use the money he saved to go on the Alaska trip next year.



Last edited by garymc; 04/27/22 07:11 PM.
Re: Congress going to fund stock market [Re: yotetrapper30] #7571291
04/27/22 08:17 PM
04/27/22 08:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 33,527
McGrath, AK
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white17 Online content

"General (Mr.Sunshine) Washington"
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McGrath, AK
Originally Posted by yotetrapper30


I think he's saying it's a tax on the business owners, not the employees. But I didn't read anything that said that the employer had to match the 3%.


Maybe... but that's wrong too. If an employee opts out and does not create a 401 K and make contributions...... then there is nothing for the employer to match.


Mean As Nails
Re: Congress going to fund stock market [Re: SNIPERB🦝] #7571386
04/27/22 09:37 PM
04/27/22 09:37 PM
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central Missouri
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Originally Posted by SNIPERB🦝
I don't see how pumping money into the stock market staves off a recession. That would require a fair amount of delusion in the economy.

Just smacks of politics and I hate when politicians point to the stock market especially after obvious pumping

Half the population maybe more doesn't realise that higher corporate taxes are a direct tax on their retirement plans . 1/3 of the money in the stock market is from retirement plans . That's alot of delusion . Pumping money into the stock market maintains the illusion/ delusion . Most people that have a stable job don't eaven realise there is a recession going on until the stock market crashes and they look at their IRA . Then they feel it and it becomes their reality

Re: Congress going to fund stock market [Re: Marty] #7571467
04/27/22 10:49 PM
04/27/22 10:49 PM
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Posts: 209
MICHIGAN
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MICHIGAN
Originally Posted by Marty
2008 to now market doubled.

What else has doubled???? Have homes doubled, land doubled and many other costs doubled....has the national debt tripled? Quadruple the amount of money being printed out of thin air backing.....how many more trillion will they print to pay off student loans when they decide in August they need those votes and cancel that debt???

^ these may not be 'exact facts' but you get my drift.

Stock market is a scam imo...ymmv.


The market is up almost 5-6 fold since the bottom. Not doubled.


Think beyond right or left don't be guilty of group think.
Re: Congress going to fund stock market [Re: jbyrd63] #7571483
04/27/22 11:06 PM
04/27/22 11:06 PM
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Posts: 9,044
mn north of blakely
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Steven 49er Offline
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mn north of blakely
I don't have a 401k type plan, am I stupid lol



The government has no business telling anyone how they should plan for retirement, it doesn't have any business bailing out those who didnt.


"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
Re: Congress going to fund stock market [Re: jbyrd63] #7571485
04/27/22 11:07 PM
04/27/22 11:07 PM
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mn north of blakely
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Steven 49er Offline
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Also its only a bill, I haven't followed it but I don't expect it to pass.


"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
Re: Congress going to fund stock market [Re: Steven 49er] #7571495
04/27/22 11:17 PM
04/27/22 11:17 PM
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Posts: 3,350
Northern Nevada, 31 yrs old
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Bob Offline
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Originally Posted by Steven 49er
I don't have a 401k type plan, am I stupid lol



The government has no business telling anyone how they should plan for retirement, it doesn't have any business bailing out those who didnt.



If you have one available to you through your job and you’re not taking advantage of it then you are at the very least ignorant.


"I have two guns, one for each of ya."
Re: Congress going to fund stock market [Re: jbyrd63] #7571499
04/27/22 11:23 PM
04/27/22 11:23 PM
Joined: May 2010
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mn north of blakely
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Steven 49er Offline
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Nah, I'm not ignorant.


"Inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon". Milton Friedman.
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