I guess they didn't bother to get seiatrapper's opinion before releasing this report.

https://www.goodmorningamerica.com/...nce-shoot-uvalde-gunman-seeking-86324401

I hear that the two teachers were alive and one died in the ambulance and the other died in the er. While the original responding cops ran away.....they were alive. Probably some of the kids were alive also a few minutes after being shot. The door was never locked....at anytime they could have opened it....but they never tried cause they ran away. Totally inexcusable behavior. Maybe the cops were trying to starve him out then bortac arrived and went in after being held back by the coward cops....

cops 100% total cowards

No one needs an AR, much less an 18 year old

The kids were on the phone with 911 while the loser cops did nothing

Strip the badge from everyone of them

shameful behavior

https://www.npr.org/2022/05/27/1101...e-uvalde-classroom-as-police-waited-to-e

I bet one of those teachers would have liked to have had an AR.

I am very happy you have a good life and are proud of yourself as you should be but we are talking about what happened in Texas. What I can't understand is one point I wasn't there neither were you But the people investigating the police have said they failed the people of that town the teachers and most of all the children because they didn't do what they were trained for why can't you understand that? It's like you were caught with your hand in the cookie jar but keep saying over and over I didn't do it. Oh by the way, I too am very happy with my life but still don't understand what that has to do with this.

^

These people that are actual LE seem to have a very different view than seiowatrapper. Doesn't sound like they buy the wait and negotiate claim the he keeps relying on to absolve the hallway cowards. How about the one in the video that goes to the hand sanitizer dispenser while kids are being killed? There's a real hero.

Clearly answered all his what if questions and blows benefit of the doubt out of the water. If he reads it and does not agree thay are cowards well ther is no use for any further discussion with him.

Anybody with experience in RCA should be able to realize that cowardice was at least one of the root causes.

Up to the point of retreat, was proper procedure being followed?

Not according to the linkes article.

This is true. ^^ It is also true that the 911 calls did not reach the officers in the hallway...so they didn't have that knowledge at the time. Communication breakdown is one of the failures of this whole episode. If they were in receipt of that information and then waited so long to breach then yes, that is despicable. But, and I have written this in this thread already, they didn't know that at the time.

One cannot be fairly judged for something that they didn't know.

You didn't read the article or you would still not be trying to claim the cops did not know kids were being shot while thay wait outside.

It comes a time when you do what’s right, doesn’t matter if you are told to or not. Anyone that thinks they needed to wait on a command is probably in a leaders position an can’t stand for someone to think/ack for themselves. I’d hate to think I had a gun an would not engage with someone else with a gun. Especially when it’s in a school house. Common sense would tell you someone is in danger. The common sense in this country is all but dead

It is a hopeless effort to explain the truth to seiowa....

It seems as though you think you are making a point here, but nothing in that report contradicts anything that I have written here. I have repeatedly described it as a failed operation, as they did in the report. I have not defended the overall response, I have only said that the failed operation is not proof positive that the attending officers are then cowards. The linked article does not share any thoughts whether or not the attending officer's were cowards...which is the point of this ongoing discussion. So...once again, a reply is really not on point.

Command failed here in serious and multiple ways. Over and over people reply to me with some sort of slant that indicates that they think I am defending the overall operation and/or that I have said that there was nothing wrong with the response, Only I have NEVER said that...not once.

I am only making the point that the failure of the operation is on the command...not necessarily on every other officer there. I think it is also noteworthy that I have asked several pertinent questions in this thread and/or pointed out that no one has bothered to address, to wit:

1. Show me any actual evidence that officers in that hallway heard screams from the victims. Many appear to be assuming this, but no one can, or will, validate it...why?

2. Several have labeled the responding LEO's as cowards, or worse, some have even suggested that they should commit suicide because of their lack of action. Yet, the first cops on the scene did immediately advance to the gunfire. Yes, they retreated when they were met with "in your face" gunfire and they should have then quickly regrouped and retried, but the arriving on site commander changed the whole dynamic by determining, erroneously, that the situation had transitioned from an active shooter to a hostage/barricade one and then directed accordingly. That is where the real failure(s) began...and they were very bad...but that then doesn't mean everyone else that happened to respond AND then follow the command is a coward. Do people not understand that there are very different protocols for officers to follow based upon the determination of the on site commander?

3. If your position is that the officer's should have breached the room anyway, essentially disobeying command...are you then OK with any given LEO in the future disobeying command and doing what they think is right in a given situation? Or, as I suspect, will your disdain for law enforcement surface once again with criticism directed towards any officer that "does his own thing", disobeys command, etc? Bear in mind that it is very likely that individual "cowboy" LEO's will end up making a bad situation worse, perhaps shooting/killing an innocent(s) as they then behave in non-cowardly way. Will you support them then as non-cowards, even if they F things up in their well meaning intent, or will you line up and criticize them then too?

4. To my recollection, most of the people arguing with me here have not acknowledged, or appeared to modify their opinion of whether all attending officers are cowards, based on the revelation that not every responding officer even knew that there were kids/people in that room. Is someone a coward if they didn't even know the whole story and no one informed them? The position of several of the posters here appears to indicate that they were...which is a ludicrous opinion to me.

5. Were the officers that breached the room and shot the gunman cowards, or not? Because many have said that ALL of the officers are cowards, only that doesn't seem like a cowardly act to me.

The report also noted multiple instances of gunfire while officers were in the hallway of the school. Uvalde School District Police Chief Pete Arredondo has said he believed the incident had transitioned from an active shooter situation to a standoff with a barricaded subject, but the report found that the "during each of these instances [of gunfire], the situation had gone active, and the immediate action plan should have been triggered because it was reasonable to believe that people were being killed."


This part was what you missed. I will make an assumption an say people being shot and scared kids will scream loudly.

Even if they heard no screams, which I find incredibly unlikely bordering on impossible (Wouldn't you scream if you were a 8 year old being shot at?) they did indeed hear multiple gun shots while they were in the hallway. That's clearly seen in the video. At that point, everyone of those cops should have known that it was NOT a hostage situation but an active shooter... since the shooter was actively shooting. At that point, YES they should have disobeyed orders and the ONLY reason they didn't was their cowardice... whether it be fear of the gunmen or fear of the repercussions of disobeying orders... either way they're still cowards.

Sounds of gunfire, absent any other noise, could possibly be interpreted as the gunman firing at the officer's. AGAIN...it should not have been declared as a hostage/barricade initially AND it shouldn't have been continued to be treated as such...but it was. ONCE AGAIN...I am not defending the response...it was totally F'ed up. BUT, the command kept the hostage/barricade protocol in effect...thereby in effect blocking the correct response.

At least you are acknowledging that you are making an assumption that there would be loud screams audible to the officers. But consider the grisly timeline...90%+ or so of all of the shots occurred prior to any officers arriving. In short, it is reasonable to assume that any screaming was over with prior to the officers getting there. Then there there were additional shots fired at the officers when they first arrived. After that, I think there were only 3 or 4 total shots, single shots and spaced out if I recall. If you know something different...please share where on the timeline you heard more.

Consider also the testimony of the teacher in one of the classrooms that ended up being the only survivor from that room. He was initially shot and thought to be dead by the gunman, later then "tested" to see if he was dead, which he remarkably was able to act in a way so as not to give the shooter the cue that he was still alive. The shooter ultimately shot him one more time, in the back, but his testimony is that his room was silent, after the first minute or so of the mayhem of course.

Again...if it is learned that any LEO could actually hear any screams/moans/cries for help, etc, from any of the victims and DID NOT then respond in accordance with that...YES, that would be a coward and I would fully support then being immediately removed from their position and possibly even prosecuted criminally. BUT, with anything that I have read or seen yet...that is NOT what happened.

Note - someone will now likely reply and say that there were 911 calls being placed from inside the room. Yes, there were, but it has also been established that those calls were not successfully transmitted to the onsite command...yet another failure...but also key to the understanding of what the officers present did, or did not, know.