Do many of you have much success with the mesh/'non metal' type of fencing?

AJE, are to asking about individual trees or for fencing off large areas. We have enclosed larger areas after cutting trees to protect the seedlings coming up. The plastic mesh fencing has done well, but have had to repair with zip ties the first 1-2 years. Once the deer got used to it they have left it alone

Individual trees.

My uncle tried to fence several apple trees at one time once and it was going well until after a few years a deer or two jumped in the pan and oh it was devastation

Tree tubes for small trees, I'm not sure how to protect them once they outgrow tubes

For my little apple trees in the yard, I made tubes out of concrete reinforcing mesh (6 inch squares) about 5 feet tall. I then wrapped these in chicken wire. Kinda like big tomato cages.

When trees get bigger, I surround them with a circle of concrete wire mesh about 8 foot in diameter.

The deer can still nip off some of the tips, but that's what hunting season is for....

k snow that would make them- "apple flavoured deer"
I like that

Heres a few pics. I use whatever I can get cheap.

^^^^^^ this is the best method I’ve tried , tree tubes work well for keeping the rabbits off but once they grow out the top the deer will keep them from growing any taller. At that point you will need to add the 6’ welded wire .

I also use the smaller tubes without the chicken wire as tomato cages and pea plant supports in the garden.

The big circles i make so the ends can be taken apart and i can cut the grass up to the tree.

I do like ksnow does

On my 3 peach and 4 pear we planted 3 years ago I got wire fencing. That 2x4" hole stuff that is 6'tall. I made circles closed them by wrapping the cut ends back around themselves.

It worked great but I recommend closing them up with zip ties. Now that they are taller I can't just cut the zip ties holding them to the t post keeping them in place and lift them over the tree to muck and prune. Next time I need to move the cage I will be cutting it and using zip ties to close back up.

I spent as much on the wire as as I did on the trees but my neighbor planted some apple tres several times then gave up after the deer killed them every time. So I figured wire was a good investment ve loosing the time on tree growth, effort replanting, and cost.

I normally rely on metal, but in part due to cost I am pondering alternatives at least on some of the small trees. Thanks for the feedback so far.

I think alot depends upon where you have your trees.
In a yard the wire fencing might be OK.
Biggest issue I have had with Apples is mice and voles girdling the tree. You wire won't stop that.

I use the plastic tubes for Oaks, they have to be the ones without the 1/4 in holes for venting as the mice will chew the holes out bigger and live in the tube at times chewing up the tree.
I put 1/4in hardware cloth around the bottom of tree tubes for the best protection.

I have never had a issue with deer chewing trees once they get above the tube. I use 5ft tubes so that maybe a difference.

Protecting the tree costs more than the tree, its hard to accept when planting but after a tree with a couple years growth get destroyed by whatever and you'll wish you spent the money on protecting it.
Takes time to grow a tree and time is irreplaceable, money isn't.

I've never seen a vole. Everyone has mice though so as far as mice go does it generally take a while for trees to get a certain size before mice won't damage them? Mouse guards are a tough 1 because my understanding is they are very important, but if done wrong the tube guards can actually house mice & ants. Apple trees are the most important probably to protect from mice but I wonder about other types of trees

Sometimes I wonder if mice can climb corrugated tree tubes

Same for me. Mice are my worst enemy on young trees. Once they reach 6-7 feet tall then they are on their own and all fencing is removed.

They dig under the bottom edge and climb the trunk.
Deer can jump a 10 ft fence.

Plantra tree tubes?
What height?
I see where some people put a mesh netting on top.

It was posted on another thread a while ago & was mocked, but this is no joke: last year I was at a forestry seminar & the speaker said to put a ~couple moth balls at the base & supposedly it keeps mice out of the tubes

We have used the Plantra tubes with the mesh netting. We put the netting on top to keep the birds out. It seemed they would get in the tubes, then couldn't get back out.

I wonder if any mesh keeps out unwanted pests like leaf eating beetles

Now is probably the time of year to put bud caps on

I looked into Plantra tubes & they make so many different height tubes it is hard to know which ones to buy

The quality of Plantra tubes look at least as good as anything I've seen in my research

We have planted 700 apple trees at home. Also some peach, cherry, and pear.

For young fruit trees, use spiral wraps as in the photos above to protect the trunk from damage.

Mice will also tunnel and eat the roots over winter. In the spring the ground thaws and the tree falls over. We use a tractor mounted 3 point implement called a tunnel bait applicator to apply rodenticide below ground in the root zone.

Tree tubes are better for other types of trees. Fruit trees you need to manage / train the small limbs with clothespins. Also need to prune.

For deer habitat and in areas of many deer, build a cage as shown above. If not, just scrap the tree because deer will eat the small limbs and rub the whip - great fun for them.

I'll consider that. I was thinking you are a tree tube fan, Willy.

I'd never heard of a mouse eating tree ROOTS. I suppose it's possible mice behave differently as frozen soil conditions vary around the country.

I am a fan of tree tubes, just not on fruit trees.
Different trees require different attention for maximum results.
Or at least for them to somewhat produce the desired results.

Spend time in a young orchard and the attacks on the trees will be devastating.
Experiencing limb shatter was quite a hoot!
Cicadas and some other insects (can’t remember which) will lay eggs in the small wood and when the eggs hatch and the larvae come out it looks like the small limbs have shattered.
Many “WHAT NOW?” moments!

One spring the mouse damage was devastating. We had trees that had been in the ground 4-5 years just falling over. I pulled one out and what had been sticking in the ground was sharpened like a pencil.

Actually, we probably planted around 1100 or 1200 trees. Some were lost to drought, deer, insects, mice, walnut tree toxin translocation, and I cut off at least 2 or 3 turning tight corners when mowing with a brush hog. In a drought we lost a few hundred young trees even though I hauled multiple loads of water in a 300 gallon tank trailer every night. One September a couple young bucks were in the orchard every night for about 2 weeks beating trees with their new hard antlers. In that time they killed / deformed at least 50 small apple trees. In some places only the stub of the rootstock was sticking out of the dirt because they broke it off at the graft.

I am about 12 years in on a tree planting of oak trees but have no experience with fruit trees. However, I started with weed mats which was a huge mistake and waste of money. While the weed mats did keep weeds and grass down and preserved moisture, the voles/mice loved to dig and nest under them and then girdle the trees.
I am a big fan of 5' tree tubes. They are just tall enough to keep the deer browsing to a minimum. I do make sure to put the bottom of the tube in the ground maybe a half inch. This seems to help keep the mice out. Stakes are pvc. The flexibility helps develop stem strength.
As the trees grow, I select the ones I want to protect most and make a remesh cage around them. This keeps the bucks from working over the tubed trees.
I will add that the deer do not like to rub on trees staked with rebar. However, the rebar does not flex enough to promote enough stem strength.

For future plantings, I will plant less trees and spend the money on tree tubes and remesh. Of the hundreds of trees originally planted, the tubed trees are 12-20' tall with trunks that have split the tubes. There is not one non-tubed/protected tree that is over 2 tall. Those that have survived look like a bush due to constant deer browse.
My 2 cents.

Thanks. This seems like interesting & sound advice

Orlando - I would like to see photos of the trees that you describe. I do not doubt you at all. Would enjoy seein the results of trees planted at the same time with and without tubes. Plus, your rebar cages sound interesting.

Using tubes in the dirt an inch or so makes it safe to spray herbicide to eliminate weeds taking water and soil nutrients that the tree could use. I use a side mounted spray boom that extends away from the tractor int the row to just touch the tree with a rubber finger. It has a pattern of nozzles so it sprays as much as 4 feet. Go down one side and up the other. The boom is hydraulic so it can be raised vertically when turning or any driving.

Not bragging, but proud of our accomplishments. Our place is a Certified Tree Farm and is in the Federal tree farm system. I am a master tree farmer. It has been fun work.

Willy,
The attached photo is from 2019. All trees were planted at the same time in I believe 2010. The trees that were tubed are much bigger now. Those in the plastic mesh sleeves are the same height but a little "bushier".
Staking the tubed trees was a bit of an issue. Keeping the tubes in place when the trees were first planted was sometimes an issue due to high winds, deer, and coons. Staking with 3/8 rebar initially worked better than PVC. However, once the trees start coming out of the 5 tube, they had a tendency to break off. So, I eventually settled on a short rebar stake with about 2' out of the ground, and then slipping a 5' piece of pvc over the stake to hold the tube but give it some flexibility.

Bucks sometimes get a little too aggressive with the tubed trees. I put remesh cages around the trees I identified as growing the best and that I wanted to make sure would survive. The cages are not free, take some work to install and maintain. But, they are a difference maker.

The trees not in tubes were put in plastic mesh . The mesh protects them very little and the deer browse off whatever is sticking out. I would not plant trees again without tubes. In hindsight, I would not plant near as many trees, but would spend the money protecting those I plant. My goal is acorn production for habitat/wildlife and not timber. I have left some rebar on the trees. If someone after I'm gone decides to cut the trees for wood, well, they're going to have to earn it.

The other day my dad was deer hunting on our property and watched a fawn walk from oak to oak eating the top. None were fenced or tubed.

I should have had bud caps on the prime trees.

Maybe it keeps insects out too

I have used tubes similar and they maybe Plantra tubes. My take on them is they are better than the ones with small round holes down at the bottom.
The small round holes (about 1/4-3/8 holes) are just places that mice exploit and chew out to a larger size so they can move in and live inside the tube.
I have had this happen on several Oaks and the mice generally don't chew on the bark of the Oaks much if at all. But when I find one that has been enter by mice I use 1/4 hardware cloth and wrap the bottom foot of the tube with it.
This stops the mice issue completely.

I have used tubes on fruit trees and lost all the trees to mice gnawing in and girdling the trees. To be honest I really don't care as much about the fruit trees as they were planted in a open area that is burned regularly and so are pain to deal with when doing a prescribed burn. So I am glad they are gone.
I do have some Burr Oaks planted in the open that I do the same with but I guess it comes down to the fact that I value the Oaks much more than apple trees.

I have maybe 50-100 White Oaks that are in tubes but they are planted in openings in a more wooded area so grass is less of a concern.
I have used landscape fabric mats around the Oaks planted in the open and then mulched over the top of the mat to keep the grass down.
I make sure to have my tubes at least and inch or two buried in the ground and this seems to have stopped mice from coming in.
I use 5ft tubes. I have not had a deer gnaw at the trees as they poke out the top and grow beyond.

I do not use any mesh on the tubes.

I use a wooden stake for mine. The stakes that come with most tubes are too small.
I buy treated wood for my stakes. Either deck boards or 2 x lumber. I rip them down to about 1 1/4 width so I end up with at a minimum a 1 x 1 1/4 or at max a 1 1/4 x 1 1/2 treated wood stake. I buy my wood at the local home depot. They always have a cart of reject wood that is on sale for 70% off. They are usually warped or what not but it doesn't matter for a stake. I cut my stakes to 6ft long and cut a sharp point on end that I then drive into the ground.

Many of my Oaks have grown out of their tubes and some are on their 2nd or even 3rd year of growing above the tubes.

I have had issues with just a handful of the Oaks. It seems that there is a disease or virus that they get. The leaves are deformed and much smaller in size. It seems to stop their growth the year it shows. But the next year its gone and they grow normally.

Just my experience with tree tubes and Oak trees.

yes, deer are THE most destructive animal out there in my experience. I can not grow Oaks without a tree tube. The only way one can survive is if its planted in the middle of a blackberry patch where the deer don't travel if possible. But even then its 50/50 if it lasts.

All this plus the lack of proper management in woodlots (not just thinning) is why members of the White Oak family will continue to disappear from the landscape in the future.
I can't ever recall seeing a woodlot with small White Oaks in it besides the first year seedlings that are doomed to deer in the winter/spring.

Anyone have luck with deer spraying?

I have been planting some trees in the bottom ground the last few years. I use old sheep fence that is junk or anything that has some cover and seems to work pretty well. An electric fence one strand will do great for big game.

No, I always figure that'd be too much expense & time. Maybe it'd work for a tree in ones front yard.

The federal guy told me he won't fund oak tree planting if people don't tube them. He did not have a specific suggested tube type though.

Wouldn't deer be just as lkely to eat up members of the red oak family?

Sometimes I consider bud capping a possible alternative to tree tubes

One thing I have tried before on certain small trees and it has worked somewhat is to use the mesh from inside a furnace filter after I burned the non metal portion of the furnace filter in a camp fire. It makes a decent little fence

Deer differ greatly from one place to another on what they will hit. What they do at my place will differ from where you are. I've seen it differ in 20 miles.


Red Oaks are down the list compared to White Oaks. But yes they will hit them but not as hard in my experience. If I had to put a value on it I'd say with about 95% certainty that a white oak seedling wouldn't survive without deer hitting them Red Oaks I'd give an 80% chance. Red Oaks do tolerate more shade than White Oaks do so that is an advantage in most woodlots..
I have caged around 2 red oak grubs that the deer had been hitting just to see results along with a couple of beech and one white oak grub.

What kind of tubes do use for hardwood trees? I wonder if mice and rabbits will damage hardwoods too

To reduce that percentage I'd put bud caps on some of the most desirable trees &/or plant a bunch of acorns so you get so many oak trees coming that it makes for a better chance that more will survive long term. Shooting more deer might be another option for some folks.

I suppose. It depends so much regarding the type of food on the landscape, etc

Some people use mesh screen material (like a roll from the hardware store) & a wooden post, but I'm unsure the diameter cylinder they make or whether they use aluminum or fiberglass window screen