Or how could you make the desicion to wear that seat belt or wipe your ---- with out being predestined?
Man will sin until he leaves his mortal body , faith in the death burial and resurrection of Christ fore redemption of sin is the saving power of God. God's grace saves, through faith of Christ, our trust in Jesus sacrifice should be sufficient. Scripture says God would that all would be saved. Do with that what you will. Thats the liberty God gives es us all.

^^^^^
One of the thieves on the cross rejected him. Are you saying that it was God's/Jesus's will the thief reject Him, and that God pre-programmed the thief to reject Him?

The context of the Greek word proorizo (predestined is often used in the English translation) is used 6 times in the NT. Paul uses it 5X and Luke once. 4 of Paul's references for his use of the Greek word proorizo is writing about God's Plan of Creation - Redemption - Restoration which included the Apostles (those called "us) in first 12 verses of the Book to the Church in Ephesus. The Mystery is the Church and the chosen (us) in the first part of that letter is about the Apostles. The "Y'alls" don't appear in the text until verse 13.

The mystery of the Church has now been revealed and we probably see one in town on the corner and drive by it mostly as if it's a building with some people in it sometimes.
Nope.
It's the Mystery revealed Paul wrote about which is a Mercy from God who, according to His infinite Mercy for us dirty, rotten sinners, gives us this time of Grace before Jesus returns as the Lion of Judah.

Richard Dawkins, the world's premier atheist repeatedly says he can't believe in a God who would create people who sin and then send God to rescue them from themselves. Such a plan is poppycock for any god.

Dawkins is correct. It is not what the Allah of Islam, or the molecules of god everywhere in pantheists like Buddhists, or the pagan gods of Baal which still exist today would do.
Those gods command people to serve them but the One Lord of all came to seek and save those who are lost.
How marvelous a love is that.
So marvelous an unchanged heart can't fathom it.
But God does change hearts and he did make the Plan, so predestined it is.

Blessings,
Mark

I have a dear friend and a sibling who I used to go round and round with on the doctrine of election. Finally, years later, they've both come to see it. There's no "I told you so!" involved in it, I just rejoice at it.

He who began a good work in you...

Was it a new twist with the confusion of tongues. Its hard for self appointed man to manipulate his subjects when they get their signs wrong.

Just hypothetically...

If I can choose to have faith in Jesus Christ out of my own free will, can I then later decide to revoke my faith in Jesus Christ? If, once choosing faith in Jesus, I am thereafter unable to reverse my choice, has God then violated or revoked my free will?


It's clear to me that the Bible plainly and repeatedly says that my faith was a gift from God and not something I drummed up from within myself. But if other believers see it differently - I don't make a big deal about it.

Hello all you experts I'm still waiting on your answer ?

I guess if she had chose to call in sick she would be alive ?!!

I don't see the point you're trying to make. Her time as well as ours are in God's hands.

Whenever I think about fate, it reminds me of Robert Frost's poem, The Road Not Taken. Another title might be "What If Instead?" I often wonder what it would be like to have a "do over."

Ever watch/read The Butterfly Effect ?

Never have, but I've heard the term before.

Ever think? "Now that I know what I know now, would I ever do things different!"

Is there Faith without fate?

I can’t see how not.

No I don’t believe in fate.