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small engine issue and the fix #7730677
11/30/22 10:00 AM
11/30/22 10:00 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,844
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline OP
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GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,844
Green County Wisconsin
Sunday I was splitting wood and my splitter ran fine then ran out of gas.

I filled it up and then I just could not keep it running for more than 4-5 minutes

no I am very picky about my fuel and this was fresh 91 ethanol free and since I rotate it often I just use my 2 stroke mix in my splitter if I haven't used it in a month I put it in the truck and get fresh.

this stuff was good and running fine in the chain saw only a week old

Monday I had drained the carb bowl to see if I had water or junk it , and really not much of anything hardly even any gas and it just barely trickled out a little bit then a few seconds then a little bit.

well that fits , I am not getting fuel into the bowl , if I wait 5 minutes I get enough to run for a few minutes then it dies just like when I turn on the fuel

last night I get to taking the air cleaner and assembly off so I can see the fuel line thinking well maybe they hid a filter in there and it is plugged , seeing no filter and good looking fuel line on a very short run over from the tank and still having the drain plug on the carb bowl out I was flipping the fuel shut of back and forth , when off I got no gas when on I got a little piddle then nothing then a little piddle.
so I opened the gas cap and a steady piddle of gas now ran out

ah ha , my vented gas cap stopped being vented and when I put it on tight I vapor locked the gas tank and it had to burp air back up the fuel line to get any more down.
put cap back on an back it off a half turn and finished my splitting

of course I started this at dark and then it started raining just as I got it apart so I finished in the rain almost back together it started pouring rain. just glad I found the issue and it is easily worked around open the gas cap a half turn.

I dislike this gas cap and tank design I have a nearly identical Kohler on my rototiller with a much better tank design even if it is plastic and this one is metal.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: small engine issue and the fix [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7730696
11/30/22 10:17 AM
11/30/22 10:17 AM
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,576
Greene County,Virginia
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run Offline
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run  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 13,576
Greene County,Virginia
Thank you for the story, Green county Pete.


wanna be goat farmer.
Re: small engine issue and the fix [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7730697
11/30/22 10:20 AM
11/30/22 10:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805
Pillager, Minnesota
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patfundine Offline
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Pillager, Minnesota
Kohler. Just had the same problem on mine. We took the cap apart and tossed the filter. No more problems. Or you can buy a new cap for $40

Re: small engine issue and the fix [Re: patfundine] #7730709
11/30/22 10:34 AM
11/30/22 10:34 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 15,522
MN
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160user Offline
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Posts: 15,522
MN
Originally Posted by patfundine
Kohler. Just had the same problem on mine. We took the cap apart and tossed the filter. No more problems. Or you can buy a new cap for $40


$40 for a gas cap? I will just use the cap off a Yoo-Who bottle instead.


I have nothing clever to put here.





Re: small engine issue and the fix [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7730714
11/30/22 10:37 AM
11/30/22 10:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,999
Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline
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Alaska and Washington State
Does the gas get to the float bowl via gravity, or by some sort of pump (diaphragm, vacuum, mechanical, etc.)?

If there is any suction involved, check the fuel pickup line in the fuel tank.

I had an identical situation once with a chain saw, and have seen it develop in a snowmachine once. What happens is the fuel line in the tank deteriorates and gets soft, then when vacuum is applied the line collapses on itself either totally or partially cutting off the fuel supply. When you inspect the line it looks fine since it has sprung back to it's original form and will suck the gas up for a short period of time before the machine then dies.

This condition happens even easier if there is one of those little fuel filters on the end of the fuel pickup line; the filter causes a little resistance all it's own (especially if it is a little dirty) which causes the line to collapse even easier.


"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: small engine issue and the fix [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7730715
11/30/22 10:38 AM
11/30/22 10:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 2,314
Hancock Co., Indiana
Kart29 Offline
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Hancock Co., Indiana
I had the same problem with my riding lawn mower. I just drilled some small holes through the cap the vent air into the tank and have not had the problem since.


What from Christ that soul can sever,
Bound by everlasting bands?
None shall take thee
From the Strength of Israel's hands.

Re: small engine issue and the fix [Re: patfundine] #7730758
11/30/22 11:22 AM
11/30/22 11:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,844
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline OP
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GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,844
Green County Wisconsin
Originally Posted by patfundine
Kohler. Just had the same problem on mine. We took the cap apart and tossed the filter. No more problems. Or you can buy a new cap for $40

good to know it is not just me

for the others here is what the cap looks like
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]
like I said I dislike the design it could have been much simpler , easier , heck probably cheaper and worked better at being a gas cap and fuel tank

it is a log splitter which means it gets used in the cold and snow a bunch but the tank collects snow and doesn't get it away from the opening well
it also collects debris and again doesn't get it away from the fill hole
you can see ice next to the hole that froze there since last night
I covered it with a tarp when I was done using it but it was raining that hard last night.

40 dollars for a gas cap is also rediculous for 129 I could put a new Predator engine on it

like useless gas cans I would guess this is a similar trying to meet epa BS those gas cans spill more gas than evaporated in the old ones

Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 11/30/22 11:23 AM.

America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: small engine issue and the fix [Re: waggler] #7730766
11/30/22 11:26 AM
11/30/22 11:26 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,844
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline OP
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GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,844
Green County Wisconsin
Originally Posted by waggler
Does the gas get to the float bowl via gravity, or by some sort of pump (diaphragm, vacuum, mechanical, etc.)?

If there is any suction involved, check the fuel pickup line in the fuel tank.

I had an identical situation once with a chain saw, and have seen it develop in a snowmachine once. What happens is the fuel line in the tank deteriorates and gets soft, then when vacuum is applied the line collapses on itself either totally or partially cutting off the fuel supply. When you inspect the line it looks fine since it has sprung back to it's original form and will suck the gas up for a short period of time before the machine then dies.

This condition happens even easier if there is one of those little fuel filters on the end of the fuel pickup line; the filter causes a little resistance all it's own (especially if it is a little dirty) which causes the line to collapse even easier.


gravity only , the carb had the fuel shutoff built in to the side of it , just 1/4 inch hose from the bottom of the tank to the carb about 7-8 inches total with the bends and 2-3 inch drop


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: small engine issue and the fix [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7730767
11/30/22 11:27 AM
11/30/22 11:27 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 7,999
Alaska and Washington State
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waggler Offline
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Alaska and Washington State
Looks like gravity fed fuel system. I assume you've checked the fuel filter?


"My life is better than your vacation"
Re: small engine issue and the fix [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7730774
11/30/22 11:32 AM
11/30/22 11:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2010
Posts: 353
Ontario
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Kermit Offline
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Ontario
Put a sealed cap on and hook up to an outboard tank. Never have to open again, or pour gas

Re: small engine issue and the fix [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7730785
11/30/22 11:44 AM
11/30/22 11:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,555
Pa
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Wright Brothers Offline
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Fixed two saws by taking vent apart and cleaning.
Diagnosed by loosening cap and they ran.
It's a dirty world.





Re: small engine issue and the fix [Re: waggler] #7730789
11/30/22 11:48 AM
11/30/22 11:48 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,844
Green County Wisconsin
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Green County Wisconsin
Originally Posted by waggler
Looks like gravity fed fuel system. I assume you've checked the fuel filter?

yup no in line filter.
there is a screen that drops in the fill hole that is the only filter I could find I assume because they realized the top of the tank design sucked and it would get junk in it easy.

I can live with turn on fuel , choke on , open cap 1/4 to 1/2 turn wait a few seconds , pull it over and she pops as the start up procedure

shut down procedure turn off fuel , close gas cap tight let it runout of gas


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: small engine issue and the fix [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7730991
11/30/22 04:28 PM
11/30/22 04:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805
Pillager, Minnesota
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patfundine Offline
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Pillager, Minnesota
That is the exact motor on my splitter. It has a black filter in that cap. Go on YouTube and find a video to dissemble it.

Re: small engine issue and the fix [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7730993
11/30/22 04:28 PM
11/30/22 04:28 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805
Pillager, Minnesota
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patfundine Offline
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Pillager, Minnesota
Yes that cap is $40

Re: small engine issue and the fix [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7731568
12/01/22 08:51 AM
12/01/22 08:51 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,844
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline OP
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Green County Wisconsin
since it seems everyone was trying to rip off honda , it looks a lot like a honda cap on the underside the old 90s ones any way
https://www.amazon.com/Ketofa-Gener...hy=9018876&hvtargid=pla-607544296029

not sure if one would fit but if any one had one of each it might be worth trying and see how close they coppied the honda


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: small engine issue and the fix [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7731620
12/01/22 10:11 AM
12/01/22 10:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,805
Pillager, Minnesota
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patfundine Offline
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Pillager, Minnesota
There's a chrome non EPA cap you can buy. It's listed in the parts diagram for that engine. I was splitting wood when mine broke down and couldn't afford to have it sit for a few days waiting on parts.


Since you have the same engine as I do I have a question for you. The motor mounts on mine are constantly breaking. They are just bolts, and I have tried everything I can think of. Is this a problem you have also?

Re: small engine issue and the fix [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7731701
12/01/22 12:21 PM
12/01/22 12:21 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,844
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline OP
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Green County Wisconsin
not really any issue with anything breaking

in 9 years other than fluids and filters the only things I have replaced is a lovejoy coupler , starter rope , and I broke the low pressure feed line to the pump seen on the left side of the picture , I hit frozen rut.

when I trailer it farther than a few miles I put it on my utility trailer for highway speeds.
[Linked Image]


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: small engine issue and the fix [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7774626
01/17/23 11:34 AM
01/17/23 11:34 AM
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 14,844
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline OP
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Green County Wisconsin
more fuel issues on this Sunday.

I went out to split clear sunny morning about 20 good splitting weather it will start but not stay running.

pull the drain plug on carb and it isn't getting hardly any gas , loosen the cap , still the tiniest trickle stop trickle stop even with the cap all the way off.

ended up pulling the gas tank 1 Allen between the muffler and air filter and 2 10mm nuts on the other side
pulled the gas line and still hardly a trickle

there is a plastic Jag that threads in the bottom of the tank 12mm and it has a screen , pulled that and gas runs out ok , put that back in and it runs out ok for a little then stops to almost nothing again , well I better drain the whole tank , did that and found I had a big ice ball in the tank

so the cap stops air but passes water , great

got that melted and tank cleaned out , the fuel line was weathered and cracked when I pulled it off the tank.

I got some 3/16 fuel line yesterday but it was raining all day and night , I have a tub over the engine to keep it dry and I think that is going to be an all the time thing as soon as the exhaust cools put a tub over it to keep weather off the engine and gas tank.

hopefully get it back together tonight

I have a load of maple to split , when it isn't a soupy mess in the yard probably Sunday again, it is looking like it will freeze up again the end of the week.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: small engine issue and the fix [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7774652
01/17/23 12:18 PM
01/17/23 12:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 25,444
Eastern Shore of Maryland
HobbieTrapper Offline
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Posts: 25,444
Eastern Shore of Maryland
Had a similar problem with mine. Did all that and still nothing, finally took a screwdriver and turned the jet screw back and forth a couple times. It fired right up. lol “Do the easiest thing first.”


-Goofy-
Re: small engine issue and the fix [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7774759
01/17/23 02:11 PM
01/17/23 02:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 666
Indiana
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DanN Offline
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Indiana
Water gets in the tank from several things - first is ethanol in the fuel. The ethanol draws moisture from the air like a sponge, if you put some gas with ethanol in it in a glass jar and leave it outside on a humid day within about half an hour it will be cloudy like milk - then put an airtight lid on the jar and the ethanol and water will settle to the bottom.This happens day after day and over time you have alot of water in the tank. The next way water gets in the tank is condensation. Your machine sets outside all night and everything gets cold - then morning comes and the sun comes up and quickly warms the fuel tank up and condensation forms inside the tank and runs down the walls of the tank to collect in the bottom - again day after day of this occurring accumulates alot of water in the bottom of the tank. To stop this from happening keep the fuel tank filled to the top when not in use so there is no room for condensation to happen in the tank. The same goes with gas cans - keep them full.

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