Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico????
[Re: grumpa]
#7730740
11/30/22 12:00 PM
11/30/22 12:00 PM
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Joined: Jul 2018
Conneaut Lake, PA
trapperjim1
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jul 2018
Conneaut Lake, PA
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That happened last year, and it's got huge potential for the tree huggers to move their agenda forward. The NTA, FTA and several other national organizations are aiding the New Mexico trappers Association in a lawsuit to get this law voided. In a nutshell ( and I'm Paraphrasing) the law says that they are only outlawing trapping on public land for "safety" reasons. The problem for trappers is that most of NM is state or federally owned land. The ramifications of this across the rest of the country are huge. Here in Pennsylvania alone we've got State forests, State Parks and most disconcerting, State Game Lands. The State Game Lands were bought with hunting license fees and some Pittman-Robertson money. These are millions of acres of "public' Land that the antis' could try to get this same kind of law passed. Does anybody believe that after the antis' get trapping outlawed, for the so-called safety reasons, that they won't go after hunting on public land under those same "safety" reasons? The laws is this country are made by legislators who if they aren't city dwellers, are beholden to city dwellers who don't have a clue about what hunting and trapping really entail. The decision to go on the offensive against this law, as it was explained to me, was made with the idea that fighting a defensive battle, you're still going to lose a little bit. Each time you lose a little bit, you've still lost. Rather than be defensive, with almost the same expenses, the decision has been made to go on the offensive. You have to applaud the idea that the antis' are going to have to justify their actions with statistics and studies just like they've made the pro trapping/hunting communities come up with over the years. However, as we all know lawsuits are expensive, now is the time to step up and aid this effort. Join the New Mexico Trappers Association. If you don't want to do that, go to their website and find out how to donate money to the lawsuit fund. If you're not a trapper just remember that after they get the trappers, they're going to be coming for the hunters.
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Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico????
[Re: grumpa]
#7730745
11/30/22 12:04 PM
11/30/22 12:04 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
Dirt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2010
Armpit, ak
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I think the lawsuit is still defensive. Offensive means you gain something, not stop something.
Who is John Galt?
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Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico????
[Re: grumpa]
#7730752
11/30/22 12:12 PM
11/30/22 12:12 PM
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Joined: Jan 2014
North East Kansas
Marty
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2014
North East Kansas
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this kinda stuff may be coming soon enough to all the states....
Rise and Rise Again Until Lambs Become Lions
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Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico????
[Re: grumpa]
#7730753
11/30/22 12:12 PM
11/30/22 12:12 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
danny clifton
"Grumpy Old Man"
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"Grumpy Old Man"
Joined: Dec 2006
williamsburg ks
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If your an Indian you can still rap it n NM. Only closed to whites blacks latinos etc.
Those who would give up essential liberty, to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety. Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790)
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Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico????
[Re: danny clifton]
#7730760
11/30/22 12:24 PM
11/30/22 12:24 PM
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Joined: Oct 2011
Wheaton Ks
lee steinmeyer
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Oct 2011
Wheaton Ks
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If your an Indian you can still rap it n NM. Only closed to whites blacks latinos etc. And that is the basis of the lawsuit. We have to have the appropriate thing happen, before the lawsuit will be filed. It all takes time, and seems to move at a snail’s pace. We lost that vote by one lousy vote, and they would not let trappers testify, even though there were hundreds of trappers there to testify and supporting those trappers there to testify. Crooked demonrat government!
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Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico????
[Re: Dirt]
#7730763
11/30/22 12:24 PM
11/30/22 12:24 PM
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Joined: Jul 2018
Conneaut Lake, PA
trapperjim1
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jul 2018
Conneaut Lake, PA
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Thank you for reading my entire rant, I can be a little long winded at times. Yes you're right, but if you read the brief the suit is going after more than just stopping this particular law. Hopefully, it's going to possibly set a precedent to avoid similar laws in the future in other states. You know whichever way the lower courts decide this, it's going to be appealed. That's why it's so important. But I like the way you look at this. as far as the law in NM goes. The only problem with trying to be proactive with a lawsuit is that you have to have a grievance before you can file, so yes it's defensive. This law in NM was pushed through the legislature by a very narrow margin, and signed into law very quickly by the Governer. The Trappers association worked very hard to stop it before that happened, but the deck was clearly stacked against them. Hence, the lawsuit. Again, go to the NMTA website to really see the overall picture of what's going on with this.
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Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico????
[Re: trapperjim1]
#7730782
11/30/22 12:42 PM
11/30/22 12:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Louisiana
MattLA
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2021
Louisiana
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That happened last year, and it's got huge potential for the tree huggers to move their agenda forward. The NTA, FTA and several other national organizations are aiding the New Mexico trappers Association in a lawsuit to get this law voided. In a nutshell ( and I'm Paraphrasing) the law says that they are only outlawing trapping on public land for "safety" reasons. The problem for trappers is that most of NM is state or federally owned land. The ramifications of this across the rest of the country are huge. Here in Pennsylvania alone we've got State forests, State Parks and most disconcerting, State Game Lands. The State Game Lands were bought with hunting license fees and some Pittman-Robertson money. These are millions of acres of "public' Land that the antis' could try to get this same kind of law passed. Does anybody believe that after the antis' get trapping outlawed, for the so-called safety reasons, that they won't go after hunting on public land under those same "safety" reasons? The laws is this country are made by legislators who if they aren't city dwellers, are beholden to city dwellers who don't have a clue about what hunting and trapping really entail. The decision to go on the offensive against this law, as it was explained to me, was made with the idea that fighting a defensive battle, you're still going to lose a little bit. Each time you lose a little bit, you've still lost. Rather than be defensive, with almost the same expenses, the decision has been made to go on the offensive. You have to applaud the idea that the antis' are going to have to justify their actions with statistics and studies just like they've made the pro trapping/hunting communities come up with over the years. However, as we all know lawsuits are expensive, now is the time to step up and aid this effort. Join the New Mexico Trappers Association. If you don't want to do that, go to their website and find out how to donate money to the lawsuit fund. If you're not a trapper just remember that after they get the trappers, they're going to be coming for the hunters. I appreciate the in detail stuff, but I actually disagree with you that giving money is the best way. The best thing from a public employee point of view is for as many people to provide comments, emails, calls and points of view as possible. Since you brought it up, I went and looked when I started the association benefits thread and saw that NM did not have a paid lobbyist for trapping. It's not some convoluted thing, it's quite easy to see what was happening, which was there was 2 or 3 lobbyists for different anti groups for years without a trapping lobbyist. For you guys who said they didn't let trappers testify, it's because there is a procedure and I am almost sure that you guys missed the appropriate procedure time to provide comments. I'm not saying 100% for sure, but I spoke with many people about this NM thing recently because of how upset it makes me. Also you guys need to pay attention to whats happening because if you don't it will put us in a real bind with limited options here. Let me explain. In Montana there is a lawsuit against essentially the Montana Government and Fish and Game for it's Wolf Management Plan. The basis of the lawsuit is that Montana shouldn't or can't manage the wolf population because of the BLM land. Montana is saying it has total jurisdiction on animals within it's state Boundaries. In New Mexico, the state banned public land trapping with very few exceptions, and there has been suggested that they can't ban trapping on BLM land. You understand the issue here? Trappers love to hate wolves for reasons I wont ever understand especially when we talk about pelt prices of wolves being one of the highest. I say all of that because remember the national strategy I spoke about in some of my posts? This is what's needed and soon enough there will be one. For now everybody needs to just politely email the legislators that voted no, call them and explain to their staff how bad the trapping ban hurts. Tell them that hey look "I have dogs too, and I don't want them trapped either. How come we don't try a minimum yardage, not feet, but yardage away from the public trail along with no pets during the trapping season and no trapping during the months when it's not trapping season near the paths." More people = wider variety of public opinion which will do way more than to try to put all the eggs in a basket that already lost a battle. The other thing that New Mexico Trappers Association needs to do right now is to get a lobbyist. If you guys know their President, I am more than happy to speak with him/her to explain how to do this without bankrupting the association. We can win, we can do this, but we cannot stop at just "ok cool we defeated the anti's lawsuit". We need to be proactive and seize the initiative and get Hunting, Trapping and Fishing in EVERY state's constitution along with the trap types. That should be every trapper's goal #1, and concurrently we need to lobby the federal legislators to put the same protections in our US Constitution. This will put an end to all the amounts of time wasting and then we can move to actual furbearer management which is where the fight should be in my opinion.
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Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico????
[Re: danny clifton]
#7730791
11/30/22 12:51 PM
11/30/22 12:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2007
MN
160user
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2007
MN
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If your an Indian you can still rap it n NM. Now they are after rapping? What next, country music? I didn't realize that the Native American community had a large group of rappers and thought it was more of an African American thing. 
I have nothing clever to put here.
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Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico????
[Re: 160user]
#7730831
11/30/22 01:36 PM
11/30/22 01:36 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Greene County,Virginia
run
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2013
Greene County,Virginia
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If your an Indian you can still rap it n NM. Now they are after rapping? What next, country music? I didn't realize that the Native American community had a large group of rappers and thought it was more of an African American thing.  My thought as well.
wanna be goat farmer.
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Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico????
[Re: grumpa]
#7731296
11/30/22 10:45 PM
11/30/22 10:45 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Adirondacks, N.Y.
trapdye
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Adirondacks, N.Y.
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Every state has these people with an agenda, No matter where you go. They move to have a better life for themselves but bring all the baggage from where they came from and try their best to make it the same. Had an incident couple weeks ago, Had a trap in a brook on private land next to a town hiking trail parking area. A good hundred yards away. These people from the city come here and take the dogs along to hike, NYS requires a leash, apparently this dog ran around long enough to find my trap, All this happened just before I pulled up. First thing out of this woman's mouth was if it was up to her, This would be outlawed. I asked her if she lets her dog run without a lease at home, She said no, He may run in the street and get hit. With the amount of these people moving up here to our small towns, It's only a matter of time before they settle in and get their perfect world agendas going.
John's Nuisance Wildlife Control If you like what you do for a living, It's better than a vacation. Most days.
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Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico????
[Re: MattLA]
#7731711
12/01/22 01:28 PM
12/01/22 01:28 PM
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Joined: May 2021
New Jersey
CJonesFTA
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2021
New Jersey
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That happened last year, and it's got huge potential for the tree huggers to move their agenda forward. The NTA, FTA and several other national organizations are aiding the New Mexico trappers Association in a lawsuit to get this law voided. In a nutshell ( and I'm Paraphrasing) the law says that they are only outlawing trapping on public land for "safety" reasons. The problem for trappers is that most of NM is state or federally owned land. The ramifications of this across the rest of the country are huge. Here in Pennsylvania alone we've got State forests, State Parks and most disconcerting, State Game Lands. The State Game Lands were bought with hunting license fees and some Pittman-Robertson money. These are millions of acres of "public' Land that the antis' could try to get this same kind of law passed. Does anybody believe that after the antis' get trapping outlawed, for the so-called safety reasons, that they won't go after hunting on public land under those same "safety" reasons? The laws is this country are made by legislators who if they aren't city dwellers, are beholden to city dwellers who don't have a clue about what hunting and trapping really entail. The decision to go on the offensive against this law, as it was explained to me, was made with the idea that fighting a defensive battle, you're still going to lose a little bit. Each time you lose a little bit, you've still lost. Rather than be defensive, with almost the same expenses, the decision has been made to go on the offensive. You have to applaud the idea that the antis' are going to have to justify their actions with statistics and studies just like they've made the pro trapping/hunting communities come up with over the years. However, as we all know lawsuits are expensive, now is the time to step up and aid this effort. Join the New Mexico Trappers Association. If you don't want to do that, go to their website and find out how to donate money to the lawsuit fund. If you're not a trapper just remember that after they get the trappers, they're going to be coming for the hunters. I appreciate the in detail stuff, but I actually disagree with you that giving money is the best way. The best thing from a public employee point of view is for as many people to provide comments, emails, calls and points of view as possible. Since you brought it up, I went and looked when I started the association benefits thread and saw that NM did not have a paid lobbyist for trapping. It's not some convoluted thing, it's quite easy to see what was happening, which was there was 2 or 3 lobbyists for different anti groups for years without a trapping lobbyist. For you guys who said they didn't let trappers testify, it's because there is a procedure and I am almost sure that you guys missed the appropriate procedure time to provide comments. I'm not saying 100% for sure, but I spoke with many people about this NM thing recently because of how upset it makes me. Also you guys need to pay attention to whats happening because if you don't it will put us in a real bind with limited options here. Let me explain. In Montana there is a lawsuit against essentially the Montana Government and Fish and Game for it's Wolf Management Plan. The basis of the lawsuit is that Montana shouldn't or can't manage the wolf population because of the BLM land. Montana is saying it has total jurisdiction on animals within it's state Boundaries. In New Mexico, the state banned public land trapping with very few exceptions, and there has been suggested that they can't ban trapping on BLM land. You understand the issue here? Trappers love to hate wolves for reasons I wont ever understand especially when we talk about pelt prices of wolves being one of the highest. I say all of that because remember the national strategy I spoke about in some of my posts? This is what's needed and soon enough there will be one. For now everybody needs to just politely email the legislators that voted no, call them and explain to their staff how bad the trapping ban hurts. Tell them that hey look "I have dogs too, and I don't want them trapped either. How come we don't try a minimum yardage, not feet, but yardage away from the public trail along with no pets during the trapping season and no trapping during the months when it's not trapping season near the paths." More people = wider variety of public opinion which will do way more than to try to put all the eggs in a basket that already lost a battle. The other thing that New Mexico Trappers Association needs to do right now is to get a lobbyist. If you guys know their President, I am more than happy to speak with him/her to explain how to do this without bankrupting the association. We can win, we can do this, but we cannot stop at just "ok cool we defeated the anti's lawsuit". We need to be proactive and seize the initiative and get Hunting, Trapping and Fishing in EVERY state's constitution along with the trap types. That should be every trapper's goal #1, and concurrently we need to lobby the federal legislators to put the same protections in our US Constitution. This will put an end to all the amounts of time wasting and then we can move to actual furbearer management which is where the fight should be in my opinion. With all due respect, I think you are a bit behind on what unfolded in NM and how it all went down. It wasn't a matter of trappers or trapping supports not speaking up properly or according to the "system". Trappers and supporters of trapping pulled together and did what they could, but this was absolutely a matter of being snowballed during COVID and things not happening according to the system in place as far as public comment and testimony. Reach out to the NMTA and they will tell you what went down. It was politics and government at it's finest.
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Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico????
[Re: CJonesFTA]
#7731755
12/01/22 02:32 PM
12/01/22 02:32 PM
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Joined: Dec 2021
Louisiana
MattLA
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2021
Louisiana
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With all due respect, I think you are a bit behind on what unfolded in NM and how it all went down. It wasn't a matter of trappers or trapping supports not speaking up properly or according to the "system". Trappers and supporters of trapping pulled together and did what they could, but this was absolutely a matter of being snowballed during COVID and things not happening according to the system in place as far as public comment and testimony. Reach out to the NMTA and they will tell you what went down. It was politics and government at it's finest.
Sure it was, NMTA hasn't had a lobbyist for how long? The state associations that have a paid lobbyist all have no issues with trapping bans, because the guy or gal they pay lobbies for trapping. Even today in 2022, NMTA still does not have a registered lobbyist, that serves exactly this purpose of pro-active protection. How come all these years of trapping NMTA didn't push the Legislature to enshrine hunting, trapping and fishing in the constitution of NM? It's easy to see the anti orgs that had lobbyists and still NMTA did not have a lobbyist to fight for trapping rights. I am almost positive if I did a freedom of information act request on "trapping" it was brought up very little to the legislature or state agencies. For Louisiana, I mention trapping every single time I contact my reps, I mention trapping everytime I have a conversation with a state gov official, I send monthly emails, and I will provide comments to just about every committee and relate it to trapping somehow. I'm not the only one who does that here in Louisiana, but I don't want cookies I want everybody else to do the same thing so that we stop losing trapping privileges in the USA. I understand what you are saying, but to me it's just excuses for a lack of action in previous years. We messed up in the 80s by not using our money to get it enshrined in the federal constitution, but we are here now and have a great opportunity because we see what has happened with the states that have lost trapping rights and how to defeat it. For instance, WA has actually rolled back some of it's trapping legislature thankfully, but it has taken 20 something years. We all need to keep providing comments and emails to the New Mexico Legislature because VOLUME speaks, not just an organization that has unfortunately lost many battles in recent years.
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Re: Trapping outlawed in New Mexico????
[Re: grumpa]
#7731773
12/01/22 03:05 PM
12/01/22 03:05 PM
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Joined: May 2010
Alaska
drasselt
trapper
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trapper
Joined: May 2010
Alaska
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Matt has a lot of good points. I hope you keep the fire in your belly for a long long time. The trick is to build things up not tear them down. Diplomacy and tact.
you can vote your way into socialism, but you will have to shoot your way out.
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