[quote=Catch22]
Dang, we need to switch unions, lol. Ours isn’t like that as far as voting. And there are certain offenses that you can be fired on the spot. Yeah you can appeal and only two that I know of where the employee was given a second chance.
Come to think of it, I’ve been in nonunion jobs that were the same way.

Unions never shipped any jobs overseas-the greedy company owners did that cause they dont give two shites about the american worker.
Same creeps that love your open southern border.

The voting part is more about union protocols and specific to the politics of that union rather than a collective bargaining agreement at least from what I've experienced. Employers answer the grievance complaint; its up to the union to decided what to do with that response. How they decide---- that is their ball game. From the employer side, its typically assumed the union is going to grieve a termination all the way to arbitration and that unless an agreement is reached prior the case will be heard by a third party. I'd would say that Catch22 synopsis mirrors what I normally saw as in most instances the rank and file were in favor of supporting a continuation of the hearing process to an arbitrator even if it was on their dime vs International when it was seen as supporting their fellow worker. However, I can think of a number of exceptions where fellow employees think someone sucks really bad and they have no interest in working with them anymore and as such dont want the case to be arbitrated so the vote or union politics would stop short of arbitrating.

And employers can always end run the progressive process as you noted in certain circumstances. But that primarily happens in egregious situations or it can be part of a strategy to be leveraged during the grievance process as a last chance agreement where its perhaps not worth the effort to arbitrate especially when you know theres a great chance that the employee will fail the last chance. I'll take a last chance any day over the flip of coin from a third party as I know most employees fail the last chance and when they do the union is in quite a bind. But often there are times when an employer will simply skip steps on principal just to arbitrate---especially if the end game is to cause either the local or international to spend money or to drive a point home

Its not too uncommon for people in general to think it super hard to terminate unionized employee. What it really amounts to is a bunch of work that is a pain in the butt that drags on for months and years for direct supervisors. And rather than doing the work it can be easier to push it off to the point that its not uncommon for poorly run organizations to end up with such a culture. However, there isnt any crappy employee that cant be fired in the end eventhough the end is usually on a different time line than preferred. One of my favorite quotes from an arbitrater to an employee was " well they've fired you 6 times prior and you've been reinstated each time. You have told me how horrible the employer is and you are a good employee that they are picking on a 7th time. However, it appears to me that where there is smoke there must be fire. No employer is going to put all this work into getting rid of someone unless they are the worst employee in their entire organization"

Just a side note--- most large non-union or work team based organization have some type of hearing process to give employees a chance to present a case if they believe they've been unfairly treated.

https://www.yahoo.com/news/biden-announce-36-billion-relief-100000375.html

I get more than a little angry at the bowing down by politicians and the fact that hard working people are forced to pay for pensions they are ineligible for, because lazy union communist sympathizers, are fawned on by the democrats they give so much dues money too.

Proud union laborer here.
Realize it isn't perfect but I'm living better now than I have previously.

Legally I cant work that many hours. 60 hours is 2100 gross. I am not Union either

Six figures, 9 weeks paid vacation, all medical,dental,vision, we negotiated for all plus pension and a seven figure 401k not perfect but more than I could have ever imagined.