Who's for it, whos against it, and why?

I love the thought of doing away with the IRS. Even as a small business owner who can take advantage of the tax laws and eliminate much of my income tax, I'd still much rather not have to deal with the IRS and just pay it at the cash register. With that said, I know all the reasons I'm for it, but why should I not like it? Some say its a regressive tax and the poor pay the most. I say it depends on how much "stuff" you want.

My first question is, how much would they tax ammunition and firearm sales? Will it be at the same rate as other consumer goods, or have its own tax rate? Could be a problem.

ol' dad

The problem is that the whole thing is thought up by the government and that by default means that we are going to get screwed in the process. Because they are going to make sure that they will end up with more then they are getting now.

It's not gonna happen. Just political posturing.

Before anything else is done congress has to quit spending. Just like the guy complaining about "predatory" lending the elephant in the room is a spending problem.

The Pittman–Robertson Act took over a preexisting 11% excise tax on firearms and ammunition.

As long as there are taxes to be collected from any tax scheme there will be a tax collecting agency. You can call it another name, but it will be an IRS.

As a percentage of income the poor would pay more ASSUMING items necessary for living are taxed and both the poor and wealthy purchase the same items and no more.

But in the real world that does not happen but, yes, the poor would be hit harder if you consider this is a tax one chooses to pay or not based on ones purchasing choices. Some things such as food, utilities or fuel are pretty much a required purchase. But again it should sort itself out with the basic nature of purchasing what one can afford. Those that can afford bologna will pays less than the guy buying ribeyes in bulk.

Of course we could exempt basic necessities like food but that runs the risk of taxing on the other end such as the luxury tax that killed the yacht building industry in the US and sent it offshore.

So all things considered the fixed flat sales tax is the closest we could get to fair.

Also if food is exempt are sodas and candy food?

I suppose I should have titled this thread "Fair Tax" rather than Fair Tax Act. I'm interested in hearing more about the concept of a fair tax rather than the bill that is about to be voted on.

ol' dad

There is an existing tax that is regressive and raises the second most revenue for the U.S. government. It is a flat rate and you pay it on dollar one before all the deductions and credits that are used to avoid the income tax. It is a model for raising revenue.

"In total, about 59.9 percent of U.S. households paid income tax in 2022. The remaining 40.1 percent of households paid no individual income tax. In that same year, about 47.1 percent of U.S. households with an income between 40,000 and 50,000 U.S. dollars paid no individual income taxes." Statista.com

I am for the Fair Tax. I think everyone should pay something and that is one way to do it. 40% paying nothing but voting to give themselves more benefits from the 60% paying in, me included, sticks in my craw. If more people had a little skin in the game they might be more observant about how their money is spent.

IMHO if you are using the word " fair" you have already been hoodwinked.

I think there are some fundamental differences between the Flat tax and Fair tax systems that have been proposed. I believe one of the major differences is that items of necessity are not taxed under the Fair tax plan. For one who lives at or below poverty, no revenue is generated. Under the fair tax plan, a tax credit, paid in advance, to each household is provided to each household to cover the cost of necessities. Any purchases beyond those would be taxed accordingly at point of sale.

ol'dad

indeed, nothing is fair. Maybe call it the "more fair" tax plan. lol

To play devils advocate here, most people's idea of a fair tax is they pay less because others have to pay more. Its all just bovine flatulence so long as congress spends more than is received.

This why the flat tax will never pass, because it will be an income tax increase on most Americans. That is no way to buy votes.

Fair tax....isn't that an oxymoron?

The first 200 g that you earn in a year will be tax exempt.
That'd be my promise if I was running for leader.

I'm talking fair tax (consumption based tax), not flat tax.

Are you saying there would be a tax increase on most americans, or that more revenue would be generated through taxes? If the ladder, then that sounds like a Democrats wet dream. And it's a bill sponsored by GOP.

It sounds appealing to me that if I want to work twice as hard in 2023 and save up money I could do it by limiting consumption. Rather than working twice as hard and paying twice as much in taxes. You can't do that with an income based tax.

And yes Danny you're correct, the government's going to get their money one way or another. But I think under a consumption base tax, the fair tax, it's more difficult for them to know what kind of budget they're going to have for the following year. If people decide not to consume, that's less revenue to the government. Conversely, most people's income is fairly stable to predict from year to year. .Gov knows exactly how much they can spend this year based on what they're going to generate in revenue next year. And then the cycle repeats..

Ol dad

We need tax all illegal invaders at 50 percent of what they are bringing in monthly. If the Mexico tax laws that i was once familiar with are still in effect, thats what they would hit any American with that was operating a business in mexico unless you were kissing the arse of the govt and cartels and those are both or multi faceted, intertwined groups. Mexico is the new Columbia. If you are not familiar with our history with Columbia, please research it. It started with Jimmy Peanut Carter and Ronald Reagan took it to a whole other level. To be precise, we are still there. What our intel agencies need to do is put high value targets on any country sending drugs via mexico. then, lets just bomb a gap in that small area near panama in which we can police with our Navy and Intel assets. if you stick your toe in the water, we bomb your pepper bellied arse. same with our southern border.

ol' dad, they couldn't care less what tax revenue will be. its called deficit spending. government spending is not limited by anything so far as I can tell

The irs will not be going anywhere. Smoke & mirrors from incompetent people.