Re: Serious question for scholarly Christians...
[Re: slydogx]
#7777028
01/20/23 01:10 AM
01/20/23 01:10 AM
|
Joined: Aug 2011
james bay frontierOnt.
Boco
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Aug 2011
james bay frontierOnt.
|
If someone came to you with the following account of how they came to be a believer looking for a considered response including your truthful opinion or thoughts on the matter, what would that response be? There are going to be some passages here that some may find offensive... it is not intentional, but necessary to provide historical context of where the person's mind was at the time.
Attended Anglican church as a child (until about age 8) in a majority Catholic area. This amounted to Sunday school crafts and very simplified morality tales being delivered by a public school teacher who he already did not like or respect based on their weekday school interactions. Child could be considered "gifted"... higher than average IQ, reading equivalency at grade 10 level by age 7. No positive memories of early church attendance and no coherent understanding of the bible or any of the lessons therein. Stopped attendance altogether as noted around age 8-9. Despite all this, still firmly believed in God's presence and considered himself a "Christian" of some unidentified sort. Almost all interactions regarding religion from this point forward was with Catholic friends and extended family. Also with some evangelical/born again sorts (sorry, don't have a better description). Never was able to square the idea of a pope against what little he did understand from the bible. Both of those groups did not represent themselves well, likely because the spokesmen were contemporaries (children/teens). That said, even the adults (with one exception) seemed intent on proving that the whole thing was silly, lacking basic logic and really any merit aside from what the child would have considered a common sense moral code. Still at this point a believer in God, with only a growing understanding that he did not understand. At this point, it is early 1980's thru mid 90's. The catholic church is rocked by sex abuse scandals and it comes to light that leadership there knowingly exposed children to predators over and over again and sought to silence any whistleblowers through intimidation and fear. This did NOT sit well and the (now) young man decided there and then that he would have no part of that mess. Simultaneously, similar abuses are revealed from all denominations, along with similar failures to act in the interests of the victims. Televangelists are emotionally extorting millions of dollars from folks and being exposed as frauds, thieves and adulterous perverts. The young man is now completely jaded with the idea of organized religion of any type and moving into adulthood ceases to give it any thought or attention at all. By mid twenties, he is now working a factory job with a comfortable wage and (mostly) good working conditions and winds up working beside a fellow that everyone warns him is "crazy" and maybe even "dangerous". The young man decides to see for himself and simply be friendly. It turns out, the co-worker is a devout Christian (Protestant... Calvinist) and a Libertarian. It is because normal folks have been conditioned to be uncomfortable with these ideas that this man was labeled such as he was. Many enlightening conversations, interesting and educational with this gentleman that were left to ferment in the young man's brain. Shortly thereafter, the young man secures a seat in a ride sharing program sponsored by the company. Both the driver and one passenger are devout Christians of some unidentified sort. While it was never really discussed on the hour long commutes, it became readily apparent to the young man that both of these men were good, decent men... largely due to their Christian belief systems. Not long after that, the young man gets his trapping license and (as per usual) is immediately obsessed and begins lurking here on T-man to feed that obsession. It doesn't take long to notice that a good number of folks on here are self declared believers and that a great deal of what they have to say about morality, ethics, etc. is in alignment with the young man's beliefs. The young man leaves his factory job... voluntarily. Eventually ends up working at a 66% pay cut, now married and struggling to afford even the basics and realizes he has no one to turn to but God if there is to be a path that doesn't lead to destitution, desperation, crime and immorality. Commits to read the bible, cover to cover, even if only to say he has done so and is surprised by some of what he finds in there. Through determination, he manages multiple promotions... all the while still struggling financially. Then, just as finances are coming together... a baby girl. Then a baby boy. Each one a little miracle.
Here's the strange part...
Driving home after a particularly grueling day, a soul destroying day of personal and professional failures he comes to rest at a red light. It is late winter/early spring, bitterly cold but clear and bright. With the force of a sledgehammer, his mind which was previously reeling with multiple inner monologues is stilled and there is the sensation of a voice that is somehow gentle and yet as powerful as a thousand thunderclaps that says "It's OK. It will be OK. You will be OK. Be at peace." Simultaneously, sunlight... that impossibly bright February sunlight streamed into the cab of the truck and bathed the man in warmth and restful comfort the likes of which he had never experienced and he was filled with emotion so much so that he nearly cried for the first time since he was a child. And just as quickly, it was gone and he was alone again in the truck for his drive home.
Now... the man is a firm believer, but cannot bring himself to attend church. He also cannot identify where he fits denominationally (is that a word?) except to say "almost certainly Protestant". His method of understanding the bible and what God is trying to tell us there is to listen to multiple opinions on different subjects and try to weed out and discard any that can't be confirmed as biblically based and/or logically sound. He has no time for rules that aren't in that book and has serious reservations about any man or organization that claims to speak for God or on His behalf.
Apparently this doesn't sit well with a lot of folks and they would discount the (supernatural?) experience described as imagined at best and demonic at worst. They cannot believe that the man would seek no earthly leadership, that in fact he has a healthy distrust of anyone whom he sees as incentivized to seek and ever increase power or influence.
What say you? Is the man somehow deceived? Unrighteous? You can be honest... the "unidentified" subject of the story won't be offended. Sounds like you(they) are sruggling with your(their) spirituality.
Forget that fear of gravity-get a little savagery in your life.
|
|
|
Re: Serious question for scholarly Christians...
[Re: slydogx]
#7777043
01/20/23 01:34 AM
01/20/23 01:34 AM
|
Joined: Jan 2008
Alaska and Washington State
waggler
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Jan 2008
Alaska and Washington State
|
Of course by about two sentences in I knew you where "asking for a friend". That's Okay.
It's amazing that God speaks to us as individuals; God knows you personally and cares about you personally. The way his Holy Spirit works on us is truly miraculous and is customized to us individually. However, the Good News is the same for everyone: Jesus Christ paid the fine/penalty for your sins on the cross, admitting to God that you are powerless to clean up your sins yourself, and that you accept Jesus Christ's offer of forgiveness, and follow Him, you are then saved unto eternal life.
God then tells us to be Baptized as a public profession of our faith. Baptism is not what saves us, but it is how we tell the rest of the world what God has done for us.
At this stage in your spiritual life the concept of denominations might seem perplexing, and maybe a little ridiculous. This is entirely understandable imo.
Find other simple Christians to fellowship with. There are so many wolves in sheep's clothing you have to be careful. But I believe if you truly want to find the right people to fellowship with, and you ask for God's guidance, He will direct your way.
Praying for you.
"My life is better than your vacation"
|
|
|
Re: Serious question for scholarly Christians...
[Re: slydogx]
#7777062
01/20/23 02:22 AM
01/20/23 02:22 AM
|
Posco
Unregistered
|
Posco
Unregistered
|
There's a man by the name Steve Lawson who gives some of the clearest presentations of what biblical repentance and regeneration look like that there are to be found. You can find him on YouTube. The videos run about an hour each.
|
|
|
Re: Serious question for scholarly Christians...
[Re: slydogx]
#7777071
01/20/23 03:09 AM
01/20/23 03:09 AM
|
Joined: Mar 2014
Central Texas
Chancey
trapper
|
trapper
Joined: Mar 2014
Central Texas
|
Life can suck and it is not fair at all. Especially for believers as we all face the peaks and valleys many times alone in person, but never alone in spirit. Some have it good, others have it bad. Some of us get the wrong end of the deal when we are young, and some of us don't. Some of us get sick and die too early and some of us don't. Some of us lose a child too early and some of us don't. Some of us get the the great job and good money and some of us don't. None of it really matters though.
We are not physical beings having a spiritual life on earth, but rather we are spiritual beings having a human life here.
Our relationship with the Creator of the Universe is all that matters. Keep reading the Word and have faith in Jesus Christ as He is the only Truth, and He will never ever ever abandon us, and he will lead us in the right direction. That is his promise and He don't lie.
המשיח הוא המלך
|
|
|
Re: Serious question for scholarly Christians...
[Re: slydogx]
#7777082
01/20/23 05:51 AM
01/20/23 05:51 AM
|
Mark June
Unregistered
|
Mark June
Unregistered
|
I do not question anyone’s salvation because I believe only God knows the names written in the Book of Life. And I certainly wouldn’t based on one post on Trapperman. However, I will point out that not once in your testimony was the name Jesus mentioned. The Bible says we will know believers and unbelievers based on their fruits. If you have truly accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior, you will see those fruits in your life. So, I ask you, what say you? This is a good observation Nbhunt and I'll try to explain. I have come to understand more deeply the corruption that resulted from the fall and that as a result, I am an irredeemable dinner, not worthy or deserving salvation and yet God loved all of us so that he gave his only begotten son to die on that cross, as forward payment for my sins and everyone else's. As my understanding has progressed, I have found myself in agreement with the idea of a triune God. I think that I grasp the idea and as a result, I also believe that it would simply be appropriate to use "God" whether in reference to the Father, the Son or the Holy Spirit. Jesus paid for our sins and our salvation is only through Him, but ultimately, God is the alpha and the omega...but I could easily be convinced that on this point I am mistaken and should refer to God and Jesus separately by name. What you're explaining sounds like the process God uses in the believer's life known as sanctification. It's ongoing and it does not stop in this life as the Spirit, who testifies about Jesus according to Scripture and Who works to change us spiritually, moves. The Father calls, the Son redeems and the Spirit seals the believer and your description of all of this slydogx is wonderful. If I were your pastor I'd simply smile in wonderment as you shared your story knowing that you sir, are woven tightly into God's own story. The world, your flesh nature, and the enemy will of course collaborate to tear all of this apart, trying to make you doubt, by calling you a fool for someone who believes in an imaginary "friend"... and much more. But through it all, with the Spirit guiding you as you go, you join the many divinely called sheep who all recognize the Shepard's voice. Great testimony! Clear. Precise. A miracle laid out. Thanks for the share. Blessings, Mark
|
|
|
Re: Serious question for scholarly Christians...
[Re: slydogx]
#7777129
01/20/23 07:43 AM
01/20/23 07:43 AM
|
J Staton
Unregistered
|
J Staton
Unregistered
|
Enjoyed your testimony slydogx. I've had God "speak" to me like you've described over a matter unbeknownst to me. Awesome experience!
|
|
|
Re: Serious question for scholarly Christians...
[Re: slydogx]
#7777200
01/20/23 09:10 AM
01/20/23 09:10 AM
|
Joined: Jun 2010
Ontario, Canada
slydogx
OP
trapper
|
OP
trapper
Joined: Jun 2010
Ontario, Canada
|
Great question! First, one does not have to walk into a building to attend church. The Church is the people, a community, not the physical structure. Find other simple Christians to fellowship with. There are so many wolves in sheep's clothing you have to be careful. But I believe if you truly want to find the right people to fellowship with, and you ask for God's guidance, He will direct your way. The quotes above from Waggler and Seth Whittington relate directly to a question that I am working through now. I am (tentatively) in agreement with the idea that The Church is not a physical structure, so I would ask other's opinions - Is this open conversation, sharing of ideas among Christians and potentially unbelievers (if any of them choose to chime in) essentially "fellowship" despite the fact that we are separated by distance? Maybe not unlike the idea of the apostles sending letters out to congregations far and wide across the known world (?) The world, your flesh nature, and the enemy will of course collaborate to tear all of this apart, trying to make you doubt, by calling you a fool for someone who believes in an imaginary "friend"... and much more. But through it all, with the Spirit guiding you as you go, you join the many divinely called sheep who all recognize the Shepard's voice. This note from the always concise Mark June is also relevant, as I believe that deception is the single greatest threat to one's ability to stay the path. Revelations provides pretty stern warning that false prophets and false teaching have been and will continue to proliferate and lead believers astray. For this reason, when I pray I really only ask for one thing - discernment. It occurs to me that if one can reliably discern the difference between those things we are called to do and the many other voices (including our own) that call us to sin then we should not be deceived. Since it is almost certainly impossible for us to understand these concepts in the same way that a mechanic understands cars, we must pray for Him to help us... and probably acknowledge that we are undeserving of the help.
Just happy to be here.
|
|
|
|
|