Looking to get 2 more trees for my little orchard this spring never had either was wondering what you guys thought of the 2 trees

For both of them you need multiple trees for pollenizers. Just something to keep in mind.

I would get self pollinating and get one of each, saying that I know there's self pollinating paw paw not sure on persimmon.

Meader persimmon supposedly is. Its an Illinois selection of our native. I'd still plant several to ensure. I got at least one male.

Paws Paws are pollinated by flies. Hanging roadkill around them helps draw in flies.

Or if you have the time, or just make the time, hand pollinate them.

I would go with a grafted variety of pawpaw(grafted starts fruiting a few years earlier than non).

Honey bees readily work persimmon. Often putting up a small surplus. It's the last of the season here in the Georgia piedmont coming in the second week of May.

I have gotten all my other trees from grandpa's orchard out of Michigan..all grafted 2 year old root stock

Pawpaws sometimes self-pollinate a little. They all have perfect flowers (male and female parts in each flower), but the female parts do not mature at the same time as the male parts do, preventing self-pollination. Don't count an a sprout coming up from under your tree to be of any help, as it is a root sucker which means that it will be the same tree. You need a tree which comes from seed to get pollination. It can be a seed from your current tree as it will have been pollinated from another tree making it genetically different and might carry the genes for a differing flower maturation rate than your current tree.
When you find a natural grove of hundreds pawpaw trees, you can bet money that patch is just one tree, connected by roots. The next grove over will be from a different seed and they will likely be the source of pollination.

Warrior, I wonder if hanging roadkill would do double duty by keeping porch pirates and the like away?

Didn't know that about paw paws. Avocados are similar.

Same thing true for hazelnuts.

I have single wild stock Paw Paws that are LOADED every year.

Paw Paws are good trees grow in abundance in Illinois creek bottoms

I'm in PA as well. Zone 6a - 5b.

I've bought persimmons.......... I've grown them from seed. I have the lousiest time getting them to establish. It seems I may have a couple that are gonna go ahead and grow now. But I'm not positive. Paw Paws are even worse.

I've read what I can about optimal soil and sunlight conditions and tried to adhere to those guidelines. But, I'm still banging my head against the wall, it seems.

Ive heard pawpaw growing described as "most trees crawl before they can walk then theyll run. Pawpaws crawl, crawl some more, then they start running"

Paw-Paws do well in shade and river slopes. Persimmons need more sun and can handle poor soil. Just my experience w both species,

Would it be that you've got other paw paws within a fly's range?

That's my bet.

This year I planted persimmon & all 5 are doing well. Next year my plan is to plant 3 or 4 pawpaws, probably a couple taytwo pawpaw & 1 or 2 sunflower pawpaw. It's really hard to find pawpaw rated for zone 4. I may have found my source for next year: www.elmoreroots.com out of Vermont.

My Paw Paw is a self pollinating wild Ozark stock I transplanted. Got a nice crop this year. Want some seeds? Didn't do so well on the Persimmons.

My paw paw tree was loaded this year, I don't no of any other trees within miles, they started ripening last week and I've been baking pawpaw bread this past week very easy to make and very tasty.

Nate, somewhere in your area there's another paw paw tree.

I'm surprised at all the different types of pawpaw trees there. Sunflower and Taytwo are the ones I'm considering.

So I was wondering how big the Virginia Champion Pawpaw is. I looked it up, then measured mine. I may have the new championing in my yard!
The current champion has a circumference 28". Mine is 32". The canopy measurement of mine I'd bigger. I am having difficulty measuring the height because of where it is located.
I planted that tree in 1997. I had a pet coon that loved pawpaws. One of the seeds that passed through him germinated in the pile where a would throw out his droppings. I planted it in a shady spot and watched it grow.

Paw paw are annoying in a yard. They spread by roots. Persimmon is a better yard tree

If you are wanting either tree in your orchard for human consumption - I would look at one of the oriental persimmons. We have tons of paw paws and wild persimmons and I dont prefer to eat either........I'd pass and just have another apple.

Pawpaw bread, yummy!!

I supppse they could take over

I bet they'd be good blended in a fruit smoothie

I would love some seeds from the self pollinating paw paw tree. Shoot me a PM with price, I would appreciate it.

I didn't realize some pawpaw are self pollinating

I bet there is another 1 in the area that you aren't aware of.

The topic is persimmon or pawpaw..i say plant both

I've done a ton of research to find ones that will work in my zone (4, near zone 5).

I've heard how healthy pawpaws are, but then I heard they put out a neurotoxicity. I wonder if any of you have heard of such a thing. I googled it & this article lists the pros & cons

https://www.webmd.com/diet/health-benefits-pawpaw-fruit

You can use ripe persimmon pulp in recipes that use pumpkin. Love persimmon bread. They grow wild all over here.

Sounds tasty & healthy K52.

Don't screw around, get both! As to multiple Paw Paws for pollination, Mine is a "Lone Ranger and Is loaded most every year.

I planted my pawpaws today

Which persimmons are cold 4 rated???

The ones from Frank's Fox River Valley Nursery of eastern Wi.

Thanks

No.

Does a good crop of pawpaw risk breaking the branches from the weight of the fruit? They seem like large fruit.

Hopefully there are enough of those flies around here to pollinate my pawpaw

I'm looking forward to spring to see how my 3 new paw paw's are doing.

All my native pawpaws have never had enough fruit to break branches. I would guess only about 5% of my paw paws ever fruit in a year. These are only native trees, never messed with. We have hundreds if not not thousands growing on a farm I rent and every year some of them fruit and many of them don't. I have brush hogged many down as they can overwhelm an area at times in understory.

The wood IS very brittle, but I've never had a branch break from the weight of the fruit, It's also growing under 2 very large Walnut trees. Have over a doz little ones popping up, root sprouts I think.

That's good to know. The fruit was real heavy is what I had guessed.

I have a (single, no second, no graft stock) Fuyu Persimmon. Produces heavy every year. Excellent fruit if you wait for the first frost to harvest them. I go out and pick about 10 every other day for weeks.
When the leaves fall off all the fruit still hangs on the tree it is an attractive tree.
If you need two of something look at budding a different tree to it. It is the simplest form of grafting. Grafting is mostly about timing of the type of graft you are doing and aligning the green part of the bark. Worst case you end up with a scar in a branch.

I didn't realize persimmon fruit lasts so long on the tree Minz.

both are delicious if you like stuff that is sweet

I'm anxious to get to the land to look at my pawpaw & persimmon this spring to see if the incredibly warm winter is bad for them

Update: All the persimmon & pawpaw died

Are you sure they are dead? I live in Ohio in Zone 6B and none of the pawpaw and persimmon trees have even budded yet.

Keith

They never came alive lasr yr, Keith.

Paw paw can handle shade and moist soil. Persimmon more sun and can handle dry soil. Observations from my region.

Happens to the best of us AJE. Paws paws can be tough to transplant and can't stand too dry of soil until after they are well established. Like mentioned my American persimmons seem to tolerate drier conditions.

BTW asian persimmons are self fruitful I'm pretty certain.

Would either asian persimmons or paw paws do well in the PNW, west side?

They both do. There are several commercial asian persimmon orchards in W. Oregon.

^^^^
Where can I buy stock that would be appropriate for the region, and find info on best growing practices?

Kind of expensive, but check out Raintree nursery.

The Missouri Department of Conservation is the cheapest place to by Pawpaw and Persimmon trees. They keep going in and out of stock, as they dig and ship more, so you have to jump on them when they put them back into inventory. If you get 100, they come out to less than $1.00 each with shipping.

https://mdc12.mdc.mo.gov/Applications/TreeSeedling/?page=4

I have 1000 trees coming from them this year, 300 pawpaws, 300 black walnuts, 100 tulip poplar, 100 black chokeberry, 100 American hazelnut and 100 bald cypress.

Keith

The MDC East Mo HQ Office is located at Busch Wildlife Area, for catalog call 636-441-4554, But may be too late to place orders for this year. Only a small surcharge for out of state orders.

I'd like to try paw paw again even through all 3 failed. I'm just not sure where to buy for my zone 4.

Check Michigan sources

my patch of paw paw trees are on the edges of things. Edge of woods for example. 20 yards of paw paw trees in the fence line but they don't grow in the woods. I figured they liked the morning sun as they were on the East side of the woods and a North South fencerow.

If someone was close to west central Missouri I would let you come pull all the paw paws you wanted. I routinely brush hog over a thousand a year I am sure. Nothing eats the leaves, no browse value and crowd the understory..........few are nice but I have way too many.
Persimmons on the other hand a much fewer and arther between. Generally about 3 years in a abandoned hay field is a good place to find persimmon trees that can start fruiting.