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Re: 223 home defense article [Re: Wanna Be] #7795313
02/10/23 04:04 PM
02/10/23 04:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline OP
trapper
GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2013
Green County Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Wanna Be
Y’all must have some very very large homes to need an AR for self defense.
I guess if you’re trying to defend your property from Zombies then an AR would be great. Inside the home I don’t see it as a useful weapon for the average person.
If I’m awaken in the middle of the night with my alarm going off or my door kicked in, I’m grabbing my turkey gun with turkey loads. I know exactly what it does at 40 yards, which will easily cover from the bedrooms down the hall. If they are already in the house when I get home, I’m still leaving the AR in the truck and going with the handgun if they’re on camera. Maybe if there’s two of us to clear the house, I’ll take the AR, but by myself it would be the handgun.


getting your turkey gun from unloaded to loaded takes a decent amount of time stuffing rounds one at a time for most turkey guns, the AR beats it in that regard , a couple of companies even make the chamber flag that when your rip the handle racks a round in for you so it can be stored unloaded but very easy to get into action.

you know your turkey gun and that is what makes shotguns work for you , I and many men is we have had one in our hands since puberty or before.
you know it because you used it . it does make sense because you have decades of training on it.

where the AR makes sense is , you start with a small person , perhaps less hand strength and little to no training ,you can fit it to them easily , it is fast into action mag in slap bolt release, it is easy to mount lights and optics to, it is powerful with out excessive recoil and the ammo is contained in a magazine easy to insert easy to replace and with sufficient quantity that you would hope to not need to reload but if you do 30 more are a second away.

handguns make sense when you have to move a bunch , but lack power, speed of follow up , ease of aiming and are harder to train and take more hand strength.

my house is relatively small 1350 sq ft longest distance across the house possible it 34 feet

not that they couldn't do lots of things , but it is more likely and better advice that should some one be kicking in the door the lady of the house who may be the only adult home takes the kids to a destination like the bedroom puts them behind her and readies the gun and start or have one of the kids start the 911 call.
now it starts to make more sense , the gun is fast to load , holds sufficient ammo , powerful without being heavy recoiling , easy to mount , light , laser , red dot .
easy to train dot on target pull trigger till threat over.
it makes sense that it be something they like to shoot at the range , maybe play some target games so that they grow the proficiency and familiarity.




Last edited by GREENCOUNTYPETE; 02/10/23 04:05 PM.

America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: 223 home defense article [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7795332
02/10/23 04:46 PM
02/10/23 04:46 PM
Joined: May 2018
SW Georgia
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Wanna Be Offline
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Wanna Be  Offline
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Joined: May 2018
SW Georgia
My “turkey gun” Remington 20ga Youth model is beside my bed loaded with one in the chamber of 3” TSS #9 shot. At 40yds it has a 30” circle with not a spot in that pattern a turkey head could not get hit. At 34ft it’s going to completely destroy someone.

Handguns are scattered all around my house. All my guns are loaded and ready to be used. An unloaded gun is useless in my opinion. If my wife is in the kitchen, there’s a gun there. There’s a gun in the living room and every bedroom. The only place there isn’t one stored is the bathroom.

My children grew up with their own guns and ammo. Theirs were not loaded, but they were all taught at a young age how to use weapons…and if they touched them without permission there would be consequences. They were also taught during our “training” of what to do incase of a fire OR a break-in. Yes, we practiced situations like that and they became quite proficient even though there was no live fire. Optimum scenario is what you described…all the our room while I clear the house. If I’m not home, same scenario and yes the AR is there (loaded) and all know what to do with it, so yes I see that now as home defense…but that is ONLY if no one else is in the house. Worst case is all the boys stay in their rooms and had designated spots to get and if that door even starts to open without our code word to just shoot. I figure that way they wouldn’t have to see the body or if someone was wounded they wouldn’t stick around.

Handguns to me are the easiest for an inexperienced person to shoot the way I teach them to shoot. My wife and DIL can hit center mass on a man size target every time at 10-20ft.

Some may think this is stupid or overkill, but if you practice the worst possible scenario and it happens, they’ll at least have better odds at surviving. To tell you how much of an impact it had, my son has now done the same thing at his house with his wife. I had no clue until they were over for dinner one night and my DIL mentioned after dinner was training night. I asked what that meant and she told me what it entailed. She then said I guess I have you to blame…or thank…for that, lol.

Off topic a tad but funny story…
Practicing a fire drill one night when the boys were REAL young I came through the door pretending I was the fire and saying what did you do, what do you do???? You can’t get to our room to go out that door, you can’t make it to the front door, you can’t make it to the back door…what do you do???
The correct response is pick up a bat and bust out the window…throw a blanket over it and climb out.
Well Zac put actions to his words, he picked up the bat, swung it as hard as he could and busted out the window!! I couldn’t be mad, lol. He did exactly what he was supposed to do…IF THERE WAS A REAL FIRE!!

Re: 223 home defense article [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7795375
02/10/23 06:19 PM
02/10/23 06:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline OP
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GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2013
Green County Wisconsin
Wanna Be

sounds like you have a plan and have it worked out

I know some have kids , nieces and nephews , and grandkids to be concerned with. so a loaded gun isn't the answer at every house.

some have , x-wives , step kids or fosters , lots of reasons not everyone can do it one way.

so lots of options and as many good tools as possible and good information for everyone to find what works for them.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: 223 home defense article [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7795452
02/10/23 07:50 PM
02/10/23 07:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Amherst, NE
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Roy Greenfield Offline
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Roy Greenfield  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2007
Amherst, NE
Home defense is at bad breath distance. Even a 410 shotgun with bird shot at 15 feet has the same basic effect as a slug.
There was a time when I participated in close quarters conflicts and from experience will say I was never impressed
with a single 223 round. 12 gauge produced results. There was no concern of wrongful death suits.
Roy


Vietnam 1970 & 1971, Delta 3/506 101st ABN
11B, Light Weapons Infantry
Re: 223 home defense article [Re: Roy Greenfield] #7795647
02/10/23 10:43 PM
02/10/23 10:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2013
Green County Wisconsin
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GREENCOUNTYPETE Offline OP
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GREENCOUNTYPETE  Offline OP
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Joined: Sep 2013
Green County Wisconsin
Originally Posted by Roy Greenfield
Home defense is at bad breath distance. Even a 410 shotgun with bird shot at 15 feet has the same basic effect as a slug.
There was a time when I participated in close quarters conflicts and from experience will say I was never impressed
with a single 223 round. 12 gauge produced results. There was no concern of wrongful death suits.
Roy


no question 12 is effective.

in your experience , 223 rounds more or less effective than 9mm. I figure if you had 12 and 223 there was likely some pistol rounds used also.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: 223 home defense article [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7795663
02/10/23 10:58 PM
02/10/23 10:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
49th State
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mad_mike Offline
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49th State
"Pistols put holes in people. Rifles put holes through people. Shotguns at the right range with the right load will physically remove a chunk of **** from your opponent and throw that **** on the floor" -Clint Smith

Re: 223 home defense article [Re: Law Dog] #7795677
02/10/23 11:18 PM
02/10/23 11:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
WI
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BvrRetriever Offline
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BvrRetriever  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2008
WI
Originally Posted by Law Dog
12 ga would be my choice the best for many reasons!


Yep…I’ll take a 12 ga with any load inside my house. I’m really confident that even a target load at close range will do the job. I’ve dropped coyotes at 40 yards with #7 and I’d bet my last dollar that it would be fatal on a human at 10 yards or less. It most definitely will stop the threat!

Re: 223 home defense article [Re: GREENCOUNTYPETE] #7795682
02/10/23 11:31 PM
02/10/23 11:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Amherst, NE
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Roy Greenfield Offline
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Roy Greenfield  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2007
Amherst, NE
9 MM came after my time in S.E. Asia. I know several special OPs men that have little use for the 9MM.
Most went back to the 45. A tweaked out drugged junkie feels no pain.
Roy


Vietnam 1970 & 1971, Delta 3/506 101st ABN
11B, Light Weapons Infantry
Re: 223 home defense article [Re: Roy Greenfield] #7795701
02/11/23 12:02 AM
02/11/23 12:02 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
WI
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BvrRetriever Offline
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BvrRetriever  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2008
WI
Originally Posted by Roy Greenfield
9 MM came after my time in S.E. Asia. I know several special OPs men that have little use for the 9MM.
Most went back to the 45. A tweaked out drugged junkie feels no pain.
Roy


They probably don’t feel any pain but I bet they stop functioning when enough lead enters their system…and I want a shotgun to deliver the dose.

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