I’m not a betting man, but finding dove and quail feathers and the birds with their backs eaten out isn’t from anything other than a Raptor. From what I’ve heard, in the “olden days” a 1.5 on a fence post with a quail or mouse on the pan helped keep numbers in check.

Providence Farm is correct. The small game population is not non-existant, it is just kept low by the presence of hawks, especially retails.

In the sixties and early seventies you could spend a few hours hunting in almost any type of cover in southeastern PA and easily flush 10-15 rabbits and a half-dozen pheasants. In the late sixties DDT was banned. It had been causing soft egg shells in birds of prey and causing moralities in hatchlings. In 1972 the Migratory Bird Treaty Act of 1918 was amended to include all birds of prey. That was the beginning of the end of the small game heyday in PA. By the eighties small game was scarce and the decline has continued.

Today I consider rabbits incidentals and no longer target them specifically. Today the only pheasants available to hunt are stocked by the Game Commission. I scout for stocked areas by watching for redtails sitting in the trees around cover areas. I try to get some before the hawks kill them all.

Where there was once a breeding population of pheasants in PA that numbered in the millions, today we have no wild pheasants, no breeding population at all.

in my lifetime, have saw wild quail completely disapear, grouse are a once every other year sighting, you could spend an hour or 2 on saturday to limit out with 6 squirrels, now you can hunt all day to see 3.
but spread chicken litter on a field and there will be 20 eagles show up, and a few redtails. rabbits are non-existant by summers end.

Raptor will hurt rabbit and quail just part of nature . But free roaming house cats and dogs unchained in summer put a hurting on bunnies around here . Dogs will run young rabbits to death and house cats kill for fun

Me too, I'm with Lug. I will say how I really see it. We used to have great numbers of small game, even on public lands because all predators were managed. Some in my Gen and a bunch of the youngin's are just plain ignorantly following along.

To me it's all on purpose, I truly believe it's a orchestrated plan by the DNR's because think about it. Any apex predators left unchecked, unmanaged, is an agenda. If the DNR's were truly for doing what they are supposed to, which is maintain healthy populations of game and fish to continue our traditions and way of life, we all wouldn't continue to see devastating declines in our own State's.

If you can't keep a kids interest in the outdoors because there's low populations to hunt or fish, less game, less outdoors people to be out there. Less people out there, less gun sales, less interest, less guns. That's my take and I believe it true and I believe it to be a sad state of affairs.

Kill it all till nothing is left, you will never kill off all the bison, or passenger pigeons its our right to kill it all. Glad you all dont live in Wy. and I lose a lot of sheep to eagles and fox also some coyotes but they are part of the landscape.

I reckon you don't care much for ADC trapping. For the life of me I just can't understand a trapper against predator management whether it swims, walks, or flies.

BTW jbyrd I wish my phone took better pictures too.

If the DNR's were truly for doing what they are supposed to, which is maintain healthy populations of game and fish to continue our traditions and way of life…


Unfortunately this isn’t the objective of the OH DNR (or any other probably). It’s protecting wildlife for the greater good of the greatest number of people. I’d bet many in the DNR ranks are non-hunters, and likely many are antis. Their goal is definitely not making sure that you can go out and get your limit of rabbits.
Only about 3% of the population hunts. There’s likely far more that want to see birds of prey. The sad part is that hunters bring in serious money for conservation, while bird watchers generally do not.
Vote. Get your friends, relatives, and neighbors to vote - for the candidates that cherish and understand the value of our hunting heritage.

Huge X1000

Yes, getting involved can make a difference. Until all of us here realize we are truly the last of the Mohicans for real and if we don't get involved and elect the right people, we're done. Enough of the woah as me, Johnny Raincloud group that just say words. We have to do what we can to keep it going as long as we can.

Amen to that, for everyone of claim that were alot more game animals years ago and no predators I claim that there were lots of fence rows, wild field and forest where they are now diked, drain tiled and cleared of any wild corner that might hold a butterfly. Not to mention the use of herbicides, pesticides and fungicides. Modern farming maybe efficient if you look at yeild/acre but its cost is very high in dollars and the environment..




There has always been unlimited predators yet the game thrived somehow for thousands of years, how do you guys square that one?

It’s a whole slug of things that’s for sure

I respond to that as saying BS!!

Hate to break it you but the purpose of the DNR is not to keep you stocked in game so you can hunt.

Its to manage the natural resources of the state for the benefit of ALL citizens. That means they will spend time and money on other things besides game animals.


Honestly some of you guys are so selfish all you can think of is yourself.

I wonder how much of you really care about the natural world or just care what you can take from it.

whats BS, there have been predators for thousands of years or that game was thriving at the same time?
Look into the sheer amount of Passenger pigeons used to be in this country (game birds), I suppose you think there was no hawks, owls, foxes etc etc at the same time?

People like you are lost on history, the real thing. It always was about proper, right and proper management of game so all of us could and should enjoy the outdoors and, and here's where your like the many who are lost, put food on our tables. You so arrogantly and ignorantly feel as though you have to break it to us, lol, you don't have a clue ole boy.

Should never prejudge a man you dont know. How old are you son? I bet I was farming while you were licking the windows.



You too Sodbuster.

If you drive through Iowa, its plowed from fence line to fence line. Where is a rabbit going to hide? whos going to hunt the plowed field for rabbits ? Many of the ditches are sprayed so no habitat what so ever. Even the poor hawks have to sit on fencepost, and telephone poles because no trees there anymore, from what I hear there is not many pheasants anymore either, did the redtails eat all those too ? They are non native anyway. Just like your chickens when you introduce them to the food chain better plan on paying a tax to the predators.

I have free range chickens and only lost one to a dog. I had hawks and eagles sitting on the pole staring at them before. I had lynx, and fox sneaking up on them. I discouraged them. I didnt go eradicating lynx and fox for it.

Small game/large game has dynamic population booms and crashes, and we as trappers should all understand its a natural part of nature and not always from predation, its mostly loss of habitat.

Hawks' populations FOLLOW the prey specie cycles. Not vice, versa. If you want to hate on a bird that eats your food, go goose hunting instead. Most modern day diets are full of grains the geese eat, not many people eat rabbits daily like they do grain.

Good point on the passenger pigeons we had too many of those remember.

First off, the main cause of the extinction of the passenger pigeon was the extinction of their primary food source and nesting site, the American chestnut tree. Passenger pigeons were specialized to mainly eat the small chestnuts produced by the American Chestnut tree and to nest on the broad, flat angled branches in colonies. All the original early documentation lists this as the cause. The hunting as the cause of extinction is a more recent lie.

No one is espousing killing all birds of prey.

One of my best friends is a master falconer and 4 other friends are falconers. I have met around 80 or 90 falconers and sell pigeons, quail and rabbits to 20 plus falconers a year. I used to hunt with birds of prey 40 plus times a year, mostly red tails, Harris hawks and Cooper's hawks. I have also hunted with goshawks, kestrels, peregrine falcons, gyrfalcons and gyr/peregrine hybrids. Except for with the kestrels, our desired game was wild animals commonly used for human consumption. Yes, the birds we hunted with caught other animals, such as mice, rats, chipmunks, preying mantises (our first catch of the year, 3 years in a row), frogs toads and snakes, but we caught rabbits, pheasants, quail, squirrels, doves and ducks too.

As stated, when flying an unmated bird of prey it will stop hunting when full. A bird of prey with a mate and nestlings will kill well past personal satiation. If given the opportunity it will kill and leave extra prey in the area to feed on later.

Our falconry season in Ohio starts September 1st to allow young of the year to reach maturity before being hunted to provide a fair chase. Hungry birds of prey kill any suitable prey they can catch. Huge numbers of then small and easy to catch, young game animals are consumed. Turkeys and geese, which are to large to catch and consume easily as adults, make easy prey when small poults and goslings.

I have watched a Cooper's hawk catch, kill and consume 8 bobwhite chicks in about half an hour, that were probably hatched that morning.

In my area, it's not uncommon to see 40 plus birds of prey in an hour drive, during the Spring and Fall passage flights. The rest of the year, it's easy to see 15 to 20 birds of prey in an hour drive. The main cause of death for birds of prey of all ages, but in particular young of the year is starvation.

Allowing a regulated take would help small game animal populations and lower predation on domestic stock, without endangering the populations of birds of prey as a whole.

One major advantage of allowing a regulated take, is that surviving birds of prey would pass on genes making them more wary of humans, lessening future conflicts over domestic animal predation. The same fear and avoidance of humans is seen in all heavily hunted populations of predators from fox to African lions.

Keith