I just ran across one of the best documentaries I’ve ever seen about the shroud of Turin . For those unfamiliar with it. It’s been thought to have been the burial cloth of JESUS. The rumors about it being a fraud because it carbon dated to the Middle Ages is addressed. If you guys are interested, and have the time to view it.. here’s the link. Very very compelling!!!

Do you know how many bones (relics) of various Apostles the Roman Catholic Church has scattered around the world? Probably enough to build a dinosaur.
Call me a skeptic.

Based on the time and place where He was born, a forensic anthropologist created this sketch of what he probably looked like. Of course we have no idea but the painting and drawings you see of Jesus look WAAAAY too European and unrealistic. Also, the culture of that time was that men who had long hair were unkempt and poor, Paul even called it shameful.

Don't shoot the messenger.

The first guy looks like Frank Zappa.
Not sure about the other fella.

I’m going to assume you didn’t watch the video

Frauenkirche, a church in Munich, has a footprint at the entrance left by the devil himself. Look it up. I went there to see it. Its an odd looking thing. Inside they have a piece of the cross and bones from saints. They have stuff like that all over Europe. Even nails from the cross and the spear that pierced Jesus on the cross in 3-4 different places.

I know it seems too simplistic and probably to many not according to their tenents but I am so grateful my faith is something that has come to me and comes to me through prayer and reading and it is something I need to do and develop and not be based on what others think and or work to prove.

Bryce

Exactly Bryce x2

That photo is AI developed. Who knew)))))))))!

Of course it is… the ai is someone’s guess at what the individual in the shroud MAY have looked like.

I won’t dispute that,,, agree that even though the human remains and other artifacts the church claims as to being holy relics,could be questionable as to the authenticity .
The shroud is a whole different story… science has no idea how that image got into the cloth… the best guess they have is extremely high amounts of energy from the INSIDE of the cloth could do it,,, but we don’t have the technology,,forensic scientists examined the cloth , the wounds are consistent with someone who was beaten severely and crucified.. there was blood in the cloth that was removed and it was human blood.

I’m also a firm believer in the life, death and resurrection of the Christ… I don’t need a cloth to back my faith. I believe that the word of GOD in the Bible is proof enough. I just think that something like this is fascinating…. Like the ark of the covenant…. I don’t need to see it to believe the account of Moses and the Hebrews and GODS involvement with them. But it would be awesome to see.

I'll watch it.

… no wonder El Chapo always escapes

LOL,Haysuse from the border.

Won't be long and I'll see what he looks like.

Please Jesus... just look like a MAN.

A healthy thing to do is to daily recall recall those moments when we think we are going to die ! I had two of those moments in 2021 when I had Covid .The shroud is not a hoax . Blessed are they who have not seen and believed ,

I believe there’s something to the shroud. There’s so much mystery surrounding it… they can’t explain why the image is there or what was the process that put it there. They have tried to duplicate it using various methods and experiments,,, and have not even come anywhere close.

The biggest mystery is where it was before the 1300's

I believe.

I haven't watched the video yet so I will just say my first thought looking at the cloth. As always I go to scripture and it says that he was unrecognizable he was beaten so bad. The cloth has a clear outline of his face so that gives me pause to start with.

It's theorized that the energy released when Jesus healed and rose from the dead is what made the markings on the shroud, so the markings would no longer show the bad beating.

Keith

I think it has been well established in the scientific community that it is a dark ages fake. Probably the most famous one though.

The Shroud of Turin is not mentioned in the Bible. It is a linen sheet thought by many to be the burial cloth of Jesus Christ. As a result of this belief, the shroud is considered by some to be one of Christendom’s most sacred relics. A cathedral in Turin, Italy, now houses the shroud in a high-tech protective casing.
Do Bible accounts support the idea that the Shroud of Turin is genuine? No.
Consider three aspects of the shroud that differ from what the Bible says.
1. The shroud is a single cloth measuring 442 by 113 centimeters (14 ft 6 in. by 3 ft 8 in.) plus an 8-centimeter (3 in.) strip sewed lengthwise.
What the Bible says: Jesus’ dead body was wrapped, not in one piece of linen, but in multiple strips of cloth. His head was wrapped in a separate cloth. After Jesus was resurrected, one of his apostles came to the empty tomb and “saw the linen cloths lying there.” The Bible adds: “The cloth that had been on his head was not lying with the other cloth bands but was rolled up in a place by itself.”—John 20:6, 7.
2. The shroud contains markings presumed to be bloodstains from an unwashed corpse.
What the Bible says: When Jesus died, his disciples prepared his body “according to the burial custom of the Jews.” (John 19:39-42) This custom included washing the corpse and applying oils and spices to it before burial. (Matthew 26:12; Acts 9:37) Therefore, Jesus’ disciples would have washed his body before wrapping it in cloths.
3. The shroud bears the image of a man “laid lengthwise along one half of the shroud while the other half had been doubled over the head to cover the whole front of the body,” according to the Encyclopædia Britannica.
What the Bible says: Jesus’ disciples discussed his death, his empty tomb, and the eyewitness testimony of women who saw “a supernatural sight of angels, who said he is alive.” (Luke 24:15-24) If the shroud had been in Jesus’ tomb, his disciples would no doubt have discussed it and the images on it. However, the Bible says nothing about such a discussion.

The washing cleaning of the body is addressed in the video ,,, I too thought about that… and the wrapping of the head with a separate piece is addressed as well

The were abouts of the shroud pre 1300s is addressed as well…

It has not been established because the parts of the shroud that were tested with radiocarbon were pieces sewed into the damaged parts of the shroud because of a fire,,,,, that’s one factor that nullifies the radiocarbon dating.. the other was the fire in the church itself,,, which could also significantly alter the testing… its no different than trying to convict someone with dna evidence that has been contaminated. The testing did confirm the blood is human blood,, and it contained bilirubin, which shows up in blood when the body sustains trauma.

Yupper Keith,,, extreme massive amounts of energy put the image on the cloth… from the INSIDE. There’s evidence of massive amounts doing similar things,, like the shadow of the man sitting, who was totally vaporized when the atom bomb was dropped…

Thank you for sharing foxkidd. Not meaning to dump on you here... Just offering another perspective.

I don't know whether the shroud is real or fake. Doesn't much matter to me as it is not central to my faith. A lot of things tied to Christianity are (for lack of a better word) superfluous. Even if the shroud is the 100% true burial cloth of Jesus it changes nothing about the message.

You can't prove or disprove matters of faith. That's why it's called faith.

"Blessed are those who have not seen and believed."

Mike

I like your Faith the BOTH of you. I can tell you for a fact that you are right. In the year of 2020 I collapsed on the Parking Lot Pavement. I was flown to Morgantown WV and my friends notifies my wife, when she got there I was already in Surgery, My Heart was Packed with Plaque from extensive Blasting. They informed my wife that I already had a stroke during the operation. Then they came out an hour later and informed her they had put two Pig Valves in my nHeart but that I had another stroke and that I probably would not live thru the night. They were all praying. The only thing I remember very clearly was that I saw a light and a very warm fuzzy feeling and felt very Calm and even Happy. But when I tried to go into the light it would not let me. I kept trying and a voice was very calm and told me to go back. That is when I woke up and was confused and cold. I have Faith now.

Truth

I just have never understood why all the fuss. If you have the need to see and experience relics or "signs and wonders" in order to have faith, then that is not true faith.

So what if the shroud is real? How does that change anything. People tend to focus on the wrong things many times.

So,,are you saying you cant have both faith,,,and an interest in relics?

Veneration of religious relics is a form of idolatry. I see no example of it anywhere in the bible, particularly in the new testament.
I don't think there is any problem having an interest in archeology from an historic perspective, however, artifacts (relics) have no spiritual value whatsoever. Giving them spiritual value is either idolatry or superstition.

I remember hearing that it was at one time in the possession of the Knights Templar.

Relics ? What about that pocket knife your Dad gave you 50 years ago ? You look at it and all those wonderful memories come ,love is remembered .I doubt you will worship that knife---

There was more to the testing than just carbon14 testing. The body positioning/blood staining was also shown to not be plausible. But hey, I don't care what anybody believes. My own belief is that people tend to be gullible.

I don't know if it's the burial cloth of Christ or not. It really doesn't matter. But, new testing has shown there were errors in the past on how it was tested. New tests have shown it is around 2,000 years old and it was a crucified man based on the wounds. But, the Romans crucified many men back then. It could be anybody.

What's interesting is that with today's technology, try as they can, they were unable to duplicate or determine how the impressions were made on the shroud. I find that as the most fascinating part of the story.

Except thats not true. just another exaggeration by TV producers


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...es-shroud-of-turin-idUSTRE5943HL20091005

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna33179539

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/science...echniques-make-relic-say-scientists.html

On January 2, 2019, researchers Filipo Marchisio, head of radiology and Professor Bollone, Forensic Medicine expert found inconsistencies in the carbon dating testing that was done on the shroud as there was evidence of minerals and algae in the corner where the sample was taken. This likely came from the water used to extinguish the fire. They also determined this was a man crucified and was real and not a hoax.

A Dr. Alan Adler, biochemist analyzed 15 fibers that were used for the 1988 Carbon dating and found a high degree of pollution on the samples nullifying the accuracy of the carbon dating.

I think it boils down to who you want to believe from the evidence that's out there pro and con.

I don't know who's image those are in the video but we can be certain that Jesus did not look like that. Looks like a painting from the 15th century that has endured and is completely inaccurate. The painter tried to make Jesus look like a European so people would identify with him. Now it seems like all the pictures of Jesus make him look like a long-haired, bearded European.

For one thing, we can be certain Jesus did not have long hair as only the poorest and unkempt men had long hair in that culture. Paul even stated that it was shameful for a man to have long hair in that culture.

That long, thin nose is certainly not the look of a Jew in any age, but especially not 2000 years ago. Those images alone are enough to convince me that the shroud is not related to the tomb of Jesus.

I have no idea if its real or fake.BUT,,"scientists" are all proud that they finaly figured out how someone created that a couple thousand years ago?They should turn in their scientists cards.Hahahaa

It is from around 12 or 13 hundred after all the test are in by unbiased parties. It like all the wood they have all over Europe from the cross at just about every catholic church. It is all started by the catholic church to keep the faithful in line. I do have a question for you why do people need anything like that to believe? God is God and a pile of rags or toothpicks doesn't make him more or less.

Why do you assume people NEED something like that to believe?It is simply something that exists,,so is a topic of interest.Either you believe,,,or don't.A piece of cloth is not going to make a difference in that.

The supposed reproduction that the scientist was able to “ reproduce “ is not in the fibers like the shroud,,,, which by the way was funded by atheists. this is also covered in the documentary… it is not an actual and reproduction.

Again,,, the carbon dating is invalid because of contamination,,, the pieces that were used to date the shroud were taken from parts of the shroud that were replaced after it was damaged by fire. Fire would also contaminate radiocarbon results. It’s almost like dna evidence in a court of law… if the dna in any way was mishandled or contaminated,,, it’s tossed out.

foxkidd44, you ever get a chance to take your bride to europe you ought to. Lots of great people, great food, beautifull scenery, and churches that are centuries old. Incredible architecture in old castles and churches alike.

I never mentioned carbon dating there are other ways to tell age as far as atheist go one of the deniers of the shroud is a catholic cardinal. I believe Christ said FAITH is believing in something you can't see or feel or words to that effect.

What other bonafide testing did they do other than carbon 14?

She does mention how she would like to see some of the things over there.

One such test was a forensic test that proved it wasn't what it was said to be. But to be honest nothing is going to change your mind because you seem to have to have something to see , feel and touch or you and some others for all your talk of faith can't believe. One question though if they are so sure it's real why won't they let them do a blood test on it and end the speculation?

What kind of forensic tests?? And they did indeed do blood sample work,, and it came back as being human… it also showed that the blood contains bilirubin… which means that the body was under some kind of trauma. The forensics that I saw in the video.. showed that the original weave of the cloth was 1st century ad, that the cotton used was a species from Africa and the Middle East, and that pollen found in the cloth was that that would be found in Jerusalem. I’m assuming you didn’t see the video. The documentary is only a few months old…