Re: Whats the best coyote bait lure combo for the NE
[Re: steeltraps]
#7915236
07/28/23 08:16 PM
07/28/23 08:16 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 11,089 Marion Kansas
Yes sir
"Callie's little brother"
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"Callie's little brother"
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 11,089
Marion Kansas
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Yes Sir. One thing that does interest me the most. What lure holder do yall use????? I have been down this road before. Bamboo sticks. Cotton 6 inch sticks. Now its on to grub stakes ? 2 days 2 weeks 2 months. That how long it may take a coyote to come back by in this country. WHAT ? Will hold lure the best ? Its like 8 to 15 % max on humidity. So lure. In this country doesnt hold well. The 6 inch cotton sticks?? Workes great in South Alabama!!! Here ? In bout a week cotton part ? Its gone ? Wind ? Insects? Other? Dont know. Thata why = grub stakes. SO. Yall that test lure. Whats the best thing to put it on??? The search never stops for me ! LOL ! I'm not to much help here. I have a good population of coyotes. Maybe not like SW Kansas but a good population here. And I have proven areas to test. 90% of my testing is down a dirt hole. I want to know which one they like enough to dig for and if comparison testing, which one they will dig for the most.Just the lure or bait. No holder. 90% of my test sets get worked on day 3 if they get worked. Never had to really fight low humidity during warm temperatures so can't advise there. I did catch a coyote 82 days after luring a step down dirt hole that was under water and frozen solid at least twice once. And had a trapper up north this winter catch two coyotes in sets that got snowed in under several feet of snow for 100 plus days then melt off on some stuff I sent it him. Think he had that stuff out on only a handful of sets. Can't say that ive tested stuff in your conditions but part of making a good formulation is truly fixing it and finding a good base that will hold an odor. It would be interesting to test methods of holding odors in your conditions but I doubt I could do it here as are coyotes don't range that big and they find it too soon. My experience is after a couple visits coyotes lose intrest and around here that happens after about a week or so. Coondagger2 I also enjoy these discussions about coyotes. Even if we disagree I can learn something or at least pickup food for thought.
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Re: Whats the best coyote bait lure combo for the NE
[Re: steeltraps]
#7915290
07/28/23 09:00 PM
07/28/23 09:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 11,089 Marion Kansas
Yes sir
"Callie's little brother"
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"Callie's little brother"
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 11,089
Marion Kansas
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I do have. A 129 dollar 8 AA battery Moultree camera. But know nothing about it. Got to be careful about what cameras u use. A lot will spook coyotes or at least put them more on guard. And there can be more of a learning curve to using them than what you would think, especially in windy areas.
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Re: Whats the best coyote bait lure combo for the NE
[Re: Yes sir]
#7915335
07/28/23 09:38 PM
07/28/23 09:38 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,004 alabama
steeltraps
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,004
alabama
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I do have. A 129 dollar 8 AA battery Moultree camera. But know nothing about it. Got to be careful about what cameras u use. A lot will spook coyotes or at least put them more on guard. And there can be more of a learning curve to using them than what you would think, especially in windy areas. I am only kidding. I have 1 old deer camera. We set it up at a friends. But their is a old bushnell here. We can use ! Lantern batteries LoL!
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Re: Whats the best coyote bait lure combo for the NE
[Re: DoubleJ]
#7915352
07/28/23 09:49 PM
07/28/23 09:49 PM
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,853 West Central MN
20scout
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 5,853
West Central MN
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We don't have the numbers here so usually it's a one and done deal here. Usually they will come in and check it out then ignore it afterwards with their curosity satisfied. I can see with a higher population and competition being greater, many would come in to lures or baits that normally wouldn't draw much if any interest.
Common sense is a not a vegetable that does well in everyone's garden.
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Re: Whats the best coyote bait lure combo for the NE
[Re: DoubleJ]
#7915523
07/29/23 08:06 AM
07/29/23 08:06 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,225 Midland, MI.
Seldom
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,225
Midland, MI.
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DoubleJ ask about choosing scents and the thread morphed into a testing thread as an aid toward determining the attractiveness of scents but there is another facet of testing that gets over looked and that is foot placement. The cameras will show repeated, inherent behavior of foot placement if the tester doesn’t use any visual or physical guiding which is the reason for only using a simple little test hole. This became even more obvious when I tested gland lures and grubstakes because the scent was above ground.
"A few want to know WHY, the majority appear to be satisfied just knowing HOW!" Youtube Channel- SeldomFales
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Re: Whats the best coyote bait lure combo for the NE
[Re: Seldom]
#7915557
07/29/23 09:14 AM
07/29/23 09:14 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,734 Maine
Mac
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,734
Maine
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Just a few thoughts from an old man. The lure and bait conversation will go on forever. Ardell Grawe wrote in one of his books that there were only a handful of guys in the lure making business that really understood all that was important in the lure and bait making game.
I have always thought he was right. Back when I used to trap more thus use more lure etc. I came to think there were but a handful of lure makers I would buy from.
In areas with a plethora of coyotes or foxes, those animals act differently than the same species in areas of lesser numbers. I know some of the experts will dispute this but they are the same guys that will say they do not think they have an advantage being able to check traps whenever they get to it. They will say that there is so much distance between fur pockets, the country is rough etc. etc. and the competition was bad. Trap in the East for tough competition. You have read about a great number of trappers going West for canines or cats. How many have read stories or articles of guys going East for trapping coyotes or cats?
I am good friends with a guy that has trapped all over the country. It was fun to hear him compare trapping fox in New England compared to Maryland or Southern PA.
Up in this country, back in the 70, 80s when prices were decent you had a tough time catching a 100 fox. Lots of hard work. You better have the stars aligned, plenty of time off, plenty of money for traveling, a tremendous work ethic and decent luck, not to mention you better know what you are doing.
Catching a 100 fox back then was a freaking feat of endurance in New England. I realize catching a 100 fox in some part of the country can be done in 2 or 3 days.
I do not give a crap what some experts say, fox under a ton of pressure become much more difficult. Not because they are smarter, just different circumstances play into animal behavior. I will suggest they are shyer
Why was it harder and different? Tough access to fur due to rough forested country and road systems, a skinny million gates to open and close.
Competition was through the roof, to catch a large number of those high dollar fox you had to cover a lot of ground. Maine weather, as is all of New England weather, is typically as bad as it gets concerning canine trapping.
My friend went to Maryland and part of PA for a few years. He would always come back shaking his head. His last day's catch when pulling a line would often be similar to his first check day. Just an amazing number of animals. He explained that the foxes down in that country were very competitive and not anywhere near as shy as say a Maine fox. Note I did not say smarter, I said shy.
What does all of this rambling mean?
While it is easy to say a coyote is a coyote, a bobcat is a bobcat, or a fox is a fox, yes biologically it is true.
But it is common sense that the environment, numbers of animals, numbers of trappers, the access to the country, the weather patterns etc. etc. makes it all interesting. Try setting just blind sets in the East if you are trapping bobcats!
Would anyone really expect a lure that tested out as a spectacular attractor when tested in a country that has a high number of canines to have the same reaction in a part of the country with low numbers? My answer would be that typically the super attractor will have some attraction but I am betting the success will not be the same.
The lure and bait making business has always held a lot of fascination for trappers. There have always been a lot of trappers looking for magic in a bottle. That is a fact.
One of my favorite trapping writers and lure makers was the late Walter Arnold. He wrote in more than one place about how the success of lures would often vary from one section of the country to the other. I believe he was correct and that that theory still holds true today.
Because we are such a small demographic of the population, it does not seem logical to me that trappers should be getting all hot under the collar about a little stink in a bottle. We have bigger fish to fry.
Happy lure testing and happy trapping guys.
Mac
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Re: Whats the best coyote bait lure combo for the NE
[Re: DoubleJ]
#7915574
07/29/23 09:59 AM
07/29/23 09:59 AM
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,225 Midland, MI.
Seldom
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,225
Midland, MI.
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Another well written piece!
"A few want to know WHY, the majority appear to be satisfied just knowing HOW!" Youtube Channel- SeldomFales
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Re: Whats the best coyote bait lure combo for the NE
[Re: DoubleJ]
#7915645
07/29/23 12:00 PM
07/29/23 12:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 11,089 Marion Kansas
Yes sir
"Callie's little brother"
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"Callie's little brother"
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 11,089
Marion Kansas
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Mac I have to ask for the sake of clarification, are you saying a a formulation developed in an area of high density coyotes can't be really good even in areas of low density and high pressure?
Last edited by Yes sir; 07/29/23 12:00 PM.
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Re: Whats the best coyote bait lure combo for the NE
[Re: Yes sir]
#7915724
07/29/23 01:54 PM
07/29/23 01:54 PM
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Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,004 alabama
steeltraps
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 6,004
alabama
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Mac I have to ask for the sake of clarification, are you saying a a formulation developed in an area of high density coyotes can't be really good even in areas of low density and high pressure? Yes Sir. I WILL go ahead and say it. IT MIGHT NOT be !! Why ? Because IF it has some of the basic most widely used ingredients in its lure formulation the coyotes HERE may run from it ! Beleive it or not. West Texas sheep trappers ALL talk and get alone well. The USDA trapper down the road 20 miles. I am friends with. I answer ALL their questions. I am their elder ! LoL! They let me ride in the front of the truck last time we did denning work together = cause im the oldest But any way. IF South West Elemanator is killing coyotes. And is over used then = Thats a problem So we all talk. IF i get one of their coyotes = Im the bad ones on me. I know what NOT to use. I have lure that to my knowledge only 4 people has. That has got me bad sheep killing females that others couldnt catch before. Keep in mind. Here. A bad coyote doesnt = Scratch = Dig at dirthholes = walk around sets. A REALLY bad one just. Kills and leaves ! That a bad female and IF you dont catch her ??? She kills = leaves = comes back 2 months later
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Re: Whats the best coyote bait lure combo for the NE
[Re: steeltraps]
#7915745
07/29/23 02:35 PM
07/29/23 02:35 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,734 Maine
Mac
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,734
Maine
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Well said steeltraps my friend.
Mac
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Re: Whats the best coyote bait lure combo for the NE
[Re: DoubleJ]
#7915747
07/29/23 02:37 PM
07/29/23 02:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 11,089 Marion Kansas
Yes sir
"Callie's little brother"
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"Callie's little brother"
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 11,089
Marion Kansas
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ST I fully believe high pressured coyotes can get conditioned to certain smells. Heck I got coyotes right here by my house I can't catch. But the way I read Macs comment is that it is ridiculous that a lure that test spectacular on coyotes in a high density population, test really good in a low density population.
To be clear when I say test good I'm talking on a comparative bases to other formulations. Im not talking about a catch rate of 1;10 in a high population then expecting that same catch rate in a low density area.
Rather a formulation that runs a higher than others catch rate in a high population area having a higher than others catch rate in a low population area. If that makes sense. When I say other I'm referring to other formulations. Or if testing a strong reaction to a particular formulation compared to other formulations.
Last edited by Yes sir; 07/29/23 02:40 PM.
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Re: Whats the best coyote bait lure combo for the NE
[Re: Mac]
#7915751
07/29/23 02:39 PM
07/29/23 02:39 PM
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Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 11,089 Marion Kansas
Yes sir
"Callie's little brother"
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"Callie's little brother"
Joined: Jan 2017
Posts: 11,089
Marion Kansas
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Mac We're you saying the same thing as ST that coyotes can get conditioned to certain smell or that it's ridiculous that a formulation that tests great in a high population will test great in a low population?
Last edited by Yes sir; 07/29/23 02:41 PM.
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