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Re: Little league Foul vs fair debate [Re: adam m] #7974507
10/18/23 07:07 PM
10/18/23 07:07 PM
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adam m Offline OP
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Yeah definitely a blown call.
Thanks everyone.
Very interesting topic overall.
Not sure if this ump was paid or not, I do know often times some umps are volunteering.
2 hr time limit now unless darkness sets in and no lights. Sometimes games go over 2 hrs.
This was a bad game overall. My son's team (not pictured) got smoked like brisket. They were down 4 players and had a week off due to unforseen things. There were a few major and several minor blown calls including this major one that really hurt us.
Oh well the kids shake it off and keep going. Next game is Saturday at a different field. This team we've played a couple times and is always a back and forth game. Those umps are strict, check every inch of all equipment.

Re: Little league Foul vs fair debate [Re: adam m] #7974512
10/18/23 07:16 PM
10/18/23 07:16 PM
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Western Shore Delaware
SJA Offline
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Hope your next game goes well! :-) All LL umps should ALWAYS check for proper / legal equipment . It's a liability issue for the league AND the umps!


"Humans are the hardest people to get along with."
Dr. Phillip Snow
Re: Little league Foul vs fair debate [Re: adam m] #7974654
10/18/23 09:12 PM
10/18/23 09:12 PM
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52Carl Offline
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Here's one for you. I ball can be batted into the air and never be touched by a player, nor ever hit the ground in fair territory and legally be determined to be a fair ball.
It happens when the ball is hit off the end of the bat and curves like a wiffle ball, resulting in curving around the base in fair territory before it lands in foul territory.
It is very rarely ever called as such because it doesn't occur very often, and the umpire has to be I the perfect spot to see it.

Re: Little league Foul vs fair debate [Re: 52Carl] #7974671
10/18/23 09:27 PM
10/18/23 09:27 PM
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Western Shore Delaware
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Originally Posted by 52Carl
Here's one for you. I ball can be batted into the air and never be touched by a player, nor ever hit the ground in fair territory and legally be determined to be a fair ball.
It happens when the ball is hit off the end of the bat and curves like a wiffle ball, resulting in curving around the base in fair territory before it lands in foul territory.
It is very rarely ever called as such because it doesn't occur very often, and the umpire has to be I the perfect spot to see it.


You'd have to cite me that rule. Must be Fed because it's not OBR.


"Humans are the hardest people to get along with."
Dr. Phillip Snow
Re: Little league Foul vs fair debate [Re: SJA] #7974698
10/18/23 09:52 PM
10/18/23 09:52 PM
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Eastern W by God V
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Originally Posted by SJA
Originally Posted by 52Carl
Here's one for you. I ball can be batted into the air and never be touched by a player, nor ever hit the ground in fair territory and legally be determined to be a fair ball.
It happens when the ball is hit off the end of the bat and curves like a wiffle ball, resulting in curving around the base in fair territory before it lands in foul territory.
It is very rarely ever called as such because it doesn't occur very often, and the umpire has to be I the perfect spot to see it.


You'd have to cite me that rule. Must be Fed because it's not OBR.

So what if that wiffle type curve ball goes into the seats ?
Is it a ground rule single ? dbl, trpl or home run ?
If its a fair ball, the batter isn't out .... right ? ... and can run !
confused

Re: Little league Foul vs fair debate [Re: adam m] #7974702
10/18/23 09:58 PM
10/18/23 09:58 PM
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Western Shore Delaware
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Fly ball into the stands? Strike, foul ball.


"Humans are the hardest people to get along with."
Dr. Phillip Snow
Re: Little league Foul vs fair debate [Re: 52Carl] #7974711
10/18/23 10:10 PM
10/18/23 10:10 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Rodney,Ohio
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Originally Posted by 52Carl
Here's one for you. I ball can be batted into the air and never be touched by a player, nor ever hit the ground in fair territory and legally be determined to be a fair ball.
It happens when the ball is hit off the end of the bat and curves like a wiffle ball, resulting in curving around the base in fair territory before it lands in foul territory.
It is very rarely ever called as such because it doesn't occur very often, and the umpire has to be I the perfect spot to see it.

I don't know why you would think this is rare...hard hit balls in the air always have some curve to them. Only time it ever gets tricky is ground balls that bounce over or near first/third base. Only time an untouched fly ball leaves the field of play and be a fair ball is a home run.

Re: Little league Foul vs fair debate [Re: SNIPERBBB] #7974718
10/18/23 10:17 PM
10/18/23 10:17 PM
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Originally Posted by SJA
Fly ball into the stands? Strike, foul ball.

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB
Originally Posted by 52Carl
Here's one for you. I ball can be batted into the air and never be touched by a player, nor ever hit the ground in fair territory and legally be determined to be a fair ball.
It happens when the ball is hit off the end of the bat and curves like a wiffle ball, resulting in curving around the base in fair territory before it lands in foul territory.
It is very rarely ever called as such because it doesn't occur very often, and the umpire has to be I the perfect spot to see it.

I don't know why you would think this is rare...hard hit balls in the air always have some curve to them. Only time it ever gets tricky is ground balls that bounce over or near first/third base. Only time an untouched fly ball leaves the field of play and be a fair ball is a home run.

My take as well, just posing the question for Sniper i'm sorry, Carl

Re: Little league Foul vs fair debate [Re: SJA] #7974722
10/18/23 10:26 PM
10/18/23 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by SJA
Hope your next game goes well! :-) All LL umps should ALWAYS check for proper / legal equipment . It's a liability issue for the league AND the umps!

Thanks. I agree and get it but some of these umps go too far. Frayed laces tape on bat peeling pinhole in batting glove etc...

Re: Little league Foul vs fair debate [Re: adam m] #7974728
10/18/23 10:34 PM
10/18/23 10:34 PM
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Western Shore Delaware
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Bat tape or grip if peeling, or unraveling, I'll tell the mgr. cut that part off. . . as long as it still meets the min grip length rule. If not, the bats gone. :-)


"Humans are the hardest people to get along with."
Dr. Phillip Snow
Re: Little league Foul vs fair debate [Re: adam m] #7974736
10/18/23 10:53 PM
10/18/23 10:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Rodney,Ohio
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Does LL require equipment checks? We stopped doing that nonsense in highschool years ago. Course if a player enters the box with an illegal bat, player and coach are elected if caught in softball, baseball is an out and coach restricted on first violation.

Re: Little league Foul vs fair debate [Re: adam m] #7974739
10/18/23 10:58 PM
10/18/23 10:58 PM
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Western Shore Delaware
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Yeah, it's "required" but very few that I've seen do it. . . . but it's their (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) if something goes wrong.

"The accident policy states coverage is in place when "in compliance with Little League Regulations," so volunteers purposely not in compliance put themselves and other members at risk for coverage.”

In a lawsuit, you may possibly have no coverage for intentional acts such as in your example. If that's the case, those injured are likely to sue to have their expenses covered by those responsible for knowingly violating the rules: the umpires, the other manager and other coaches in the league, the officers and members of the Board, the District Administrator, etc.

There may also be punitive damages, which are not covered by insurance in most states by law. Punitive damage awards are meant as a punishment. In essence you knew it was wrong, did it anyway and someone was injured—so those found negligent pay the award out of pocket as a punishment, and not the insurance company. Otherwise, it would not be a punishment or deterrent.

Juries and/or judges make these decisions. Those directly involved (such as umpires, managers, coaches, etc.) and indirectly (such as officers and board members) who know they are acting outside the rules and do not stop the practice are the ones at risk. The risk is far too great, and for what? A little inconvenient?
With choice comes responsibility and accountability for your actions. You are right to refuse to allow those things to happen in the games you officiate. Yes, the coach might be dismayed when you tell him his catcher must wear a mask and helmet during infield practice. Just keep in the back of your head, that coach is probably not going to be willing to pay your portion of a multi-million-dollar damages suit if the child is hurt.



Last edited by SJA; 10/18/23 11:01 PM.

"Humans are the hardest people to get along with."
Dr. Phillip Snow
Re: Little league Foul vs fair debate [Re: adam m] #7974743
10/18/23 11:09 PM
10/18/23 11:09 PM
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Rodney,Ohio
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When your league/association requires it, then you have to do it for legal purposes. We're not so our insurance isn't in doubt unless we knowingly allow the illegal equipment to continue then we're on our own.

Last edited by SNIPERBBB; 10/18/23 11:10 PM.
Re: Little league Foul vs fair debate [Re: adam m] #7974748
10/18/23 11:15 PM
10/18/23 11:15 PM
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Western Shore Delaware
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I only do LL to give a little back to the community when I can. I'm a Wendelstedt grad.


"Humans are the hardest people to get along with."
Dr. Phillip Snow
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