What's your routine start to finish? I was out today with my 7mm Mag, my shoulder hurts and I still haven't nailed it down.

4 inch black dot at 25 yards,then move it to 100,bore sight by eye,adjust the scope if necessary (or the iron) then fine tune with groups of 3.
If I can put every shot in a 4 inch circle at 100 yards I can kill anything around here as long as I know the range.

i shoot a 7mm Rem mag too

i shoot 3 shot groups ONLY , if they're good at 30yds
Go to 100 ( 3" high at 100) yds 3 shots check target...adjust scope 3 shots continue until good
Same at 200 yds. should be dead on at 200 by then.

139 gr bullet No shoulder pain

Sight in dead on at 25 yds. Then check zero at 100 like 2 inch high…..try putting a limbsaver on if it kicks that bad.

… get on paper aiming at bullseye.. 1 shot … vice your gun with crosshair on bullseye… adjust crosshair to the hole your bullet made with your gun stationary in the vice

Solid front and rear…a vice if you will. Shoot one shot, leave gun as is and move crosshairs to bullet hole. Shoot again to make sure it’s dead on…
If your scope is the BDC reticle type just count over and up/down and move crosshairs with appropriate clicks.
Generally 3 shots and it’s on. My son sighted in 3 rifles for the owner this afternoon in 7 shots. He went the wrong way on one adjustment, lol.

When I’ve had that problem I start at 10 feet with the gun sand bagged so it shouldn’t move much and work my way out to 100 yards in about 20 foot increments, it’s time and ammo consuming but it does work, this method has helped me find other issues such as scope mounts moving when you can’t zero at 10 feet there’s something seriously wrong.

This ^ also if you shoot it when it’s hot it might hit differently when it’s cold just shooting and shooting is not your friend.

lead sled and ear muffs are the key to a good sight in, don't get to flinching from recoil or sound plus your rock steady. What you spend on a lead sled you will save in ammo sighting in a few rifles.. Also you will immediately know if there is a mechanical problem with scop, mounts etc.

I was was talking to an ex Army sniper instructor today picking his brain about various shooting topics. I asked him how often he cleaned his rifle between shots. He told me a dirty bore shoots more accurately than a clean, cold bore. That sure sounded counterintuitive to me.

If your shoulder hurts and you haven't been able to get a tight group, you might need to dial in "Posco" before you spend any more money on bullets.
Sore shoulder can come from a single shot while not having a tight plant of the stock into your shoulder. Thick clothing can trick you into thinking that the added layers will protect your shoulder. Not so if you don't completely compress those letters with an extra amount of rearward force.
Once I have a sore shoulder, its time to give the big gun a rest, and I pull out a rimfire rifle which I know is dead nuts on.
Then I can work on getting "Carl" dialed back in. It's amazing how that calms me down and allows me to focus on the fundamentals of proper position, and everything else required of me to them make the big gun do what it supposed to do.

I shoot 2 shots off the bench at 100 yards to make sure it is still on.

I have a sled. Not the one I wanted but I am getting a rocksolid hold. I double up on the hearing protection and squeeze to trigger. The trigger is crisp with no slack. I don't know what it breaks at but it's not heavy. Maybe it's the factory ammo, I don't know.

I like to hit dead on at 25 yards then finish up at 300, not good to shoot till your sore. You will start jerking the trigger. No need to do it all in one day. some rifles I dont shoot that far. 30-30 or 556, 22 hornet and the like.

I clean pretty regular. If you wait till your groups open up the carbon buildup takes awhile to get out.

I have decent tolerance to pain. I used to reload for my .300 Win Mag and I'd typically take two boxes to the range. I could make it through the first box pretty good but the second box wasn't as fun.

That's where I am at,.I feel confident with it,..not out west needed.

I sight in at 50yards. If I just scoped a rifle, I use a laser bore sight at 20 to get me on paper. Then shoot one round at 50 and move the cross hairs over to the hole. Shoot one more to verify. Sighting in and shooting groups are two very different kettle of fish.
I shoot groups at a 100 but using the 50 yard zero so depending on the cartridge I am a bit high at 100 and thats fine with me as that does not destroy the bulls eye of the target that I use to line up on. 5 shot groups for developing loads .... 3 shot groups to just test if the rifle is " on "

Solid support front and back. Pull bolt and bore sight at 50 yds looking down barrel, that gets me on paper about 90% of the time at a 100 yds. Back out to a 100 yds fire one round. If it's on paper I do as several have mentioned and setup gun so it's cross hairs are on bulls eye then adjust scope to bullet hole. Then 3 shot group. If it still need a bit of tweaking I'll measure target and dial in adjustment. Ultimately on varmint guns I go 2" high at a 100, deer guns 3"" high at 175 yds and for playing at my range I'll zero at 300 on the bigger guns.

Muzzle brakes are nice on the shoulder if your wearing good ear protection.

Pain is just an intense form of pleasure. I used to "enjoy" shooting the 375 H&H off the bench.

These pics are from the last time I sighted the rifle in. It's four hundred yards from where I took the pic to the target on the tree line. I'm very careful around my guns as far as bumping them and whatnot. I'll check the mounts to see if something might have worked loose. You can see a couple of flyers next to my fingers. I Don't recall where they were in the sequence.

IMC Inches Minutes Clicks

I start at 25 yards on a 1/4 inch graph paper with a 5 one inch squares

prone with a sling or at a bench with a rest I lay in the best 3 shots I can holding the bottom edge of that square but center left right

then with those 3 rounds if I have a group and I should I count squares at 25 yards every square is 1MOA dial in that correction for left right.
I will dial in an elevation correction to stay about an 1 to 1.5 inches low at 25 yards then I fire 2-3 more rounds if they are grouped center but about an inch to inch and a half low time to move to 100 yards.

a 1/4 inch is 1 MOA at 25 yards so on a 1/4 minute click scope 4 clicks to every 1/4 inch square I need to move.
you can measure but the light graph with the dark squares makes it easy to count off.

at 100 yards it depends on the optic or irons for what target I use about a 2 inch square on point works for most optics the vertical and horizontal cross hairs line up with the points of the square on point
the diagonal of a 2x2 inch square is 2.82 so very close to 3 inches I want that 100 yard group say for a 223 , 308 , 30-06 to be 1 1/2 inches above point of aim so just off the point of the square I fire 2-3 then adjust if I felt they were good shots.

same thing measure how far vertical and horizontal I want to go then dial it in at 100 yards 1MOA =1.047" until you get to 500 yards or further.
round to 1 inch and if you shoot 100 meters which is 109 yards close enough technically 104.7 yards would be the point it is 1 inch so close enough it works for both yards and meters at 100

when I have it just off the tip of the square which is about 1.5 inches high I will move to 200 for confirmation often at 200 I will just paint the steel black and shoot I can see the impacts with my binoculars I am shooting for the center or I may paint a dot I want all my rounds to impact in a group where I am aiming

what I am shooting determines if it is 200 yards or 200 meters 218 yards. that is the extent of my regular range.

if I need to collect data farther I have to go to the farm.

at 200 I may fine adjust left right to make it center or fine adjust the elevation to hit point of aim

at 200 on a 1/4 moa click scope each click is 1/2 inch

at 300 it is 3/4 of an inch

at 400 it is an inch.


make sure you read the manual for your optic some are 1/2 moa and that will have you double what you intended on every adjustment.

Mrad or Mill Radians is for another time if you have an optic in mrads

Lead sled is the only way to sight in guns. I can shoot all day and never have a sore shoulder.

When i was behind the gun during my days. I never cleaned my rifle, only pushed a dry patch down it. Only time it saw a bore brush was when storing it.
When it was time to go to work. I shot around 5 rounds to confirm zero and dirty the bore so to speak.
Clean barrel always thru the first shot high.
Also, remember, first shot from cold barrel ( heat isn't your friend) is the accurate and money maker. More then two shots usually revealed your position.
Sarge

If new scope bore sight it. Shoot 1 time at 25 yards. Adjust as needed. Move to 100 yards

As for cleaning the bore . Sniper was right . I have a 6 mm that is 48 years and the bore has not been cleaned in 30 years. Not shot a lot anymore. But it will drive a tack right out of the safe . Also got a savage axis 270 that had NEVER been cleaned . 130 grain federal it shoots pea sized group at 100 off sand bags

I will say I've had scopes go bad and that is an effort in frustration until u realize it's the scope. I shoot often enough now I think I'd recognize it pretty quick if it happens again.

My old 721 Remington in 300 H&H was an honest 1/2 inch rifle. I took it on an elk hunt and it POURED rain on us. After that it didn't shoot worth a hoot, like 4 inch groups. I blamed a warped stock. I scrubbed the bore for 5-6 hours. I have owned the rifle for 30 years and had never scrubbed the bore. After thoroughly scrubbing the bore (and changing nothing else) it will do 3 shots you can cover with a quarter at 100 yards.

If you shoot suppressed and subsonics you better clean your bore! If you shoot suppressed with regular loads you better clean your bore.

Don't be crapping on my rifle but it's a Remington 700 with a 4x12 Leopold. Synthetic stock.

Truth

Clean as good as I can the night before.

Depending on the gun I'll generally zero off of bipod and rear bag because that's generally how I'm shooting. That and I've had some guns give different POI from.a bag vs a bipod. Some don't seem to care some do, all depends.




15-25 pop the bolt old school bore site . Look down the bore center the target and then move the reticle till it matches with what I'm seeing on the bore.



Depending on what I'm shooing I'll do one shot and if it's on paper I'll keep my reticle on the aiming point and adjust to the bullet hole. Now if it's HV round like my moss berge going 3000fps I'll just run out to 100yd because it should be shooing pretty flat but if it's something like my cast bullets or something that's slower or more finicky I'll shoot another two to confirm where it is. I've had deal where it's dead on at 25 but off to the side at 100yd. Extra two or three rounds at 25 keeps you from cashing your tail at 100yd. Especially if you don't have a camera hooked up to your spotting scope like I do.

Anyhow go to 100yd and confirm I'm in paper shoot a group minimum 3 round 5rd preferred. Move reticle back t winning points them move to the groups. Three round to confirm I'm as dead center as I can get. Then shoot some targets . Can do it in 10rd and have something good nuff but 20 rd is what I'm happy with



Also don't like to do the whole thigh high at this so it's good out to whatever . Been there done that just ne we been happy with it. Zero in dead at 100yd work up a dope card with my ballistic apps see what that looks like and confirm..been much much happier with that. Not good at shooting paper past 100-125yd . Can I I g steel and targets haut fun out to 500yd though. Have a 4" gong that I'll set out and shoot to confirm dope, I do like shooing more then most

^this

On the subject of cleaning..... This guy is the current F class ( 1000yd ) WORLD champion and this is his thoughts on cleaning. He's also has multiple interviews with premium barrel manufacturers, actual snipers , bench rest champions and other FClass guys , all compere at an EXTREMELY high level so..

a 7mm mag has a lot of kick. You really don't need one if your deer hunting. Sure they work but if I were just deer hunting I would use a lesser caliber. You want to be comfortable with the gun you shoot. Because if it hurts you, you will not be as accurate with it. Not saying you would be afraid but lets just say apprehensive. I would move on from it. Lots of good information here. Don't trust boresighters. You can get it on paper at a hundred by looking thru the barrel.

Been meaning to ask, I've been seeing a lot of vets and active duty saying the easiest way is to sight 0 at 37yds. At 300 yds you'll be at cd size area of sighted at 37yds. I've never heard this, is this true?

Remember that's for a BATTLE zero, meaning zeroing like that is good for shooing a man sized target from the belt up. You also need to aim correctly still per distance per hold over
Most people we had who could zero but still fail quality never could under stand the different holds

after 5-10 rounds in a barrel after cleaning the bore is nearly identical shot to shot , consistent is better than clean

a clean bore you have all your cleaning factors did you run 2 dry after your oil patch or 1 you create a bigger variation with a minor variation in your cleaning.

target shooters will call it a fouling shot particularly in black powder your getting the barrel to the state it will be for the rest of the rounds.

many competitions allow some "sighters"

Carlos Halthcock did teach clean cold bore CCB data collection it as much drives home the function of cleaning identical every time

but it isn't the most accurate this is why a CCB shot may be a few inches off a fouled bore shot

CCB data was more necessary in the days of corrosive ammo

and while collecting CCB data is a tedious thing it would make you a better shooter

lead sleds can get you right close but you won't have a lead sled in the field so there comes a time you have to get off the sled and shoot how you will shoot in the field , bag , bipod , sling , sticks however you shoot in the field is how you want to get your final zero

Good stuff. Let me toss something else out there. How do you guys sight in for MPBR?

Thanks wolf. They were saying they use this technique for every rifle even their hunting rifles. They do 3 shots at 37 yds and they are done. I find it intriguing and am not going to test it on mine until end of the hunting season.

This might be the ticket .BUT one important thing I heard was after 400 rounds his group opens up. If I shoot more than 2 times in the deer woods i'm missing or i'm on doe patrol. I haven't shot 400 rounds total thru my 270. I haven't shot 400 rounds thru my 6mm in last 25 years TOTAL. If a hunter shoots 10 rounds a year thru his "hunting" rifle it takes 40 years to shoot 400 rounds. Most on here are just hunters.

Back in the Spring I was working with a rifle and was getting whacky results from scope clicks, so took that scope off to send to Leupold. Replaced it with a Nikon my kid had been using on his rifle. My first shot missed clean at 25 yards. Was struggling to understand why until I did a quick bore sighting. He had been trying to shoot at half a mile and that scope did not have enough elevation adjustment to get him there, so he replaced it......but had left the scope in fully elevated position. That got it back on paper and was off and running. Lesson learned, bore sight it before taking the first shot.

Also, somewhere in the middle of all that, watched a video from Leupold, and for new scopes, they recommend running a new scope up and down full range from top to bottom and side to side and do that 2 or 3 times......, then return them to center. That is to "excercise" the springs to ease up on any memory they may have developed. Had never heard that one before.

it used to be the 25yard zero it works well for m193 ball ammo from an AR it is about 6 inches high at 100 yards , 10 inches high at 200 yards and 6 inches high at 300 yards and 4 inches low at 400

so if you have a old AQT target the bell shaped ones and 100,200,300,400 yard qualification you bottom hold the target on the rapid fire stages 1,2,3 and at 400 you hold the head of the target

every round is different so you can get more from it if you adjust your sight in distance to match the arc and scope/sight over bore.

36 or 37 yards is an over simplification it mostly works on most common 308 and 223 like rounds

you look strait at the target your gun is at a slight angle to your optic or sight so that the bullet is angled up at firing it crosses the line of sight at distance A it reaches a maximum height over line of sight at B and it crosses back through the line of sight at C.

if we run this with my 308 round it is a 180gr bc .540 at average velocity of 2625fps my sight height over bore is 2 inches

my point A near zero is 35 yards my far zero is 200 yards so I could put a target at 35 and fire a round then aim on that bullet hole and adjust till I am cutting the same hole and I would be really close at 200 my far zero

my highest point is at 125 yards I am 2 inches high and 2 inches low at 235 this gives me a large usable point and shoot range it also lines up with points in my retical for shooting further

the mistake for me would be not verifying at 200 , what looks good up close is expanded at distance it is a stacking tolerance
I have seen people put up a 1 inch square target at 25 and hit it 3 times call it good and go to the long range at 25 yards a .224 bullet width is almost an MOA by the time you get the hole it basically is that could be an inch off at 100 , 2 at 200 and 4 at 400 so not terrible if you have no other range.
but I said they hit 3 times in the 1 inch square not that they stacked 3 rounds overlapping, they may have been 3/4 of an inch apart and still in that square or 3/4 inch at 25 yards = 3moa that is 3 inches off at 100 , 6 at 200 and 12 at 300 and 24 at 400.

so not confirming at 200 you can see could lead to a larger error from your near zero it is going to be hard to get the qualification score at 400 yards when you are 24 inches off on a 16 inch target

when you confirm your far zero and adjust as needed to bring you to point of aim point of impact , you can then go back to any point in between muzzle and far zero and be good left right unless you have a scope mount out of alignment with your barrel. your vertical will also be between your your muzzle and highest point of the arc

depending on the round your far zero may be 125 , 150 , 200 , 218 , 225 , 235 , 250 something like that

my far zero for 300 black out 110gr is 150 yards , it just isn't moving like 223 and 308

200 is what you see as the zero on the long range trajectory on most ammo boxes

200 or right around 200 has a lot going for it , at 200 it takes a wicked strong wind to effect 223 & 308 type bullets at those velocities.
unless you are above 20mph you don't even worry about wind at 200 , that doesn't mean you want to zero in the wind it is more likely to blow you off than the bullet.

200ish you can also see well enough your not fighting any optical issues with mirage

and if you center up a group at point of aim at 200 you can be sure it is going to be very close out further

you should shoot every distance you intend to take game at so if your going to shoot 350 , do it in practice best to be on every 50 yards and know your D.O.P.E data on personal equipment.

I guess that was maybe a little long worded for just saying on at 36 or 37 is good to go is an over simplification but if your in a place where that is the only range you have to shoot make sure your stacking bullets at 36-37 and it isn't for every round but 223/5.56 and 308/7.62 it is fairly close.

a 150gr from the 300 blackout is a near far zero of 38 and 125

near zeros tend to range from 25 to 42 yards it is the stacking of error that makes only a near zero not good when you get out further.

This.

In high intensity cartridges like the 7 RM, I sight in 2.5" high at 100, then for deer sized targets, hold lower third on the shoulder at 100, center shoulder for 200, upper third for 300, just above hair at 400, and 1' above the hair at 500. Beyond 500 I dial