The problem is that they see an AR15 and think its the same machine gun someone in the military uses.
They have no concept of full or semi auto. They have no concept of the different types of rounds. They have no concept of hunting and growing up around firearms.

Them seeing a .22 round and Ruger 10/22 fire one shot with each trigger pull.
Compared to a 12ga round and a Remington 1100 fire one shot with each trigger pull.
Compared to a .223 Ruger Ranch rifle with a wood stock and it firing one shot with each trigger pull.
Compared to a .223 round and a AR15 fire one shot with each trigger pull.
(those last two are the same rifle but look diff and banning one and not the other is ridiculous.)

Then show them an actual full auto to compare those with and tell them that the full auto are already illegal.
And explain that banning a AR15 semi auto is the same thing as banning semi auto shotguns that all the duck hunters use.
(imagine loading up a Benelli with a bunch of 2 3/4 slugs and how deadly it would be.)

Maybe explain to them that you could have a deadly mass shooting in any crowd with someone caring half a dozen six shot revolver pistols.

Its not the firearm that does it. They don't even understand that before they made whatever comment they are making that you are trying to tell them they are wrong about.

James, why would you even bother engaging these folks in a "debate"?. You are a smart, articulate man, you can pick out the weak spot in any argument and give a well reasoned response I'm certain that you were a skilled litigator before you retired and have kept those debating skills sharp. These people you are engaging with hate us and hate our way of life. By us, I mean trappers, gun owners, rural people and even a few city folks with conservative values. Anytime liberals (Democrats) get total control they immediately try to instill their values onto everyone by the force of law by trying to make anything they don;t like illegal. If they could they would totally prohibit private gun ownership in a heartbeat, and throw anyone in prison who dared to defy them.

I live in a rural area, we have gotten death threats because we sell trapping supplies. I have a duty as a husband and father to protect my wife and kids. If someone breaks into my house in the middle of the night I will certainly do what I need to do to protect my family. These folks would gladly take that right away from me and you. Never mind that law enforcement could take 30 minutes or more to get to my house in the middle of the night if something happens.

The Bill of Rights which contains the Second Amendment brings together the theory of natural rights, which states that humans are granted certain freedoms and liberties by God, and that the state should not have the power to usurp, deny or otherwise infringe upon or take away these rights. This is what I have formed my belief system around.

I don't need to justify my right to own a gun within the framework guaranteed by the Second Amendment, just as your contemporaries in the writing program don't have to justify to anyone what they write because of the First Amendment. Yet, they would gladly take away your rights to own a firearm. These are not the kind of people I would associate with or enter into a discussion with.. Whether their intentions are good or not, they have absolutely no right to force their values onto anyone.

I understand you like to debate, but in my opinion you are not going to change any minds. If they can't look at what happened in Israel at the different situations where civilians had access to firearms and saved themselves or those who didn't and were slaughtered nothing will change their minds.

I know a few folks who hunt and trap and feels strongly about owning firearms, yet support the left. It is a contradiction that I cannot understand. I'm of the mind, if someone shows you who they are, believe them. James, when these writers tell you they hate gun owners, believe them.

I just stay away from Liberals as much as possible even if they are family. I walk away when they start their anti-gun rants. Actually, that irks them more than debating them.

Thanks for the additional good arguments, guys. The debate seems to have gone away, Maybe I gave them too many facts or most of them grew tired of not being able to rebut my rebuttals.

Gerald, I didn't look for a debate; I got baited into joining this one after one of the moderators said that probably no one would disagree with gun control on that forum.

All of the people on that forum are good writers, some of whom are getting published and read. Their opinions are likely to influence others more than most people. Most are young, in their twenties, with little life experience past college. They may still be impressionable, and ripe for hearing something other than what the college professors stuffed between their ears. They live in an echo chamber. I thought it wouldn't hurt them to hear the other side of the gun debate, presented rationally, so they can't dismiss this gun-owner at least as a "gun nut." Foaming at the mouth and yelling and being insulting only makes people stop listening to whatever you're trying to say.

I suppose I've ruined my reputation there for being too conservative, in much the way as I've done here for being too liberal. A guy can't win.

Jim

^^^This^^^
Just refuse discourse. It infuriates them.

There's an old saying: Never wrestle with a hog. You'll both get dirty and the hog will like it.

Maybe this argument has been stated previously.... When the gunman bursts through the door, here or somewhere else, and begins shooting you unarmed targets, you are going to be (This word is unacceptable on Trapperman) happy that I have a gun.

You don't need an argument.

You'er talking about Hunter right.