Just had time to review my recently received Alaska Wolf Trapping Manual. Some may not like what I say but frankly I do not care. I was hesitant to purchase this manual but decided that possibly there was some things to learn. Well I learned. I learned that I should have never purchased it.
In the very beginning of the manual on page i there is a code of ethics. Including this to me is just wrong. The Alaska Trappers Association is selling a trapping manual and I do not think its right to try and influence trappers in this way by trying to force feed it to them. Also on page 3 paragraph 1 it states and I quote ." Wolf populations have NEVER been endangered in or even threatened in Alaska." That may be true but again whom ever wrote this is trying to use the writing to influence others. Something I do not agree with.
As far as trapping related information goes, what I have scanted over so far seems pretty basic and if you are a new trapper it might be helpful.

Thanks for buying the manual. You are entitled to your opinion of what it is worth!

ATA is constantly striving to improve trapper ethics and knowledge of furbearers. That is why we included the things that you are upset about being included.

As for the manual being "pretty basic..." The whole idea is to allow beginners to become proficient AND for others with more experience to pick up a few tips that might make them more proficient. When it was first published, I had been trapping for many years and had caught a few wolves. But I can assure you that I learned a few things from the experienced wolf trappers who contributed material. I am always anxious to learn more tricks of the trade.

Despite your criticism, most people really like it and are grateful for the info presented. In fact, you are the first person I have ever heard make these criticisms! Sorry it didn't measure up to your standards!

Pete

You forget to take your meds?? Our code of ethics is an off the wall thing to take offense over. If more people followed that advice trapping might be around a little longer.

You’ll probably get bent to know the state prints the ethics on the back of the trapping regulation booklet.

I honestly don't remember what the code of ethics says in the ATA manual, but I assume it is probably pretty close to what is the code of ethics of most trapping organizations. Most organizations have a "code of ethics" or similar and print it on most of their publications. I never really give it much thought unless there is something in it I disagree with. I certainly don't have a problem with it being printed, and if there is something in it I disagree with I can either bring that up to the organization or decide not to support the organization. Frankly I think it is usually a waste of ink, because with the exception of the very young who haven't learned ethics from others yet, people are either ethical and the naive but ethical MIGHT get something from the code and those are rare but probably who the code is printed for. The unethical are going to ignore the code and think those who follow it are stupid, while the ethical probably don't need to read the code because they are already ethical.

Now if there is something in the code you don't agree with, I certainly think you should state what it is and everybody can have a discussion on whether it should be in the code of ethics or not. (Although frankly I'm unsure how much weight either your or my opinion should have, since neither of us are Alaska residents).

As far as your quote, if that is an actual quote I'd have a lot more issue with the grammar, since that sentence doesn't even make sense the way it is written.

I have the manual, but it is loaned out so I can't check your quote, I will agree with it being "pretty basic" and personally didn't find it as helpful as many claim, but it does have a lot of basic information for the beginner and some good tidbits for others. For those of us in other areas we have to sift through it and weed out the advice/methods that either aren't legal, wise/ethical or feasible for our area. I would have liked to seen more in depth info from the Southeast (or Southwest, I never remember which) where they deal with large amounts of wet snow and freeze/thaw conditions, since that is the type of conditions I am often dealing and struggling with. Again though, this is an ALASKA trappers manual written for ALASKANS not for those of us in the lower 48, thus it should be written for the most helpful information for them, those of us in other areas can sift through and glean all the information we can from it, but in my opinion it should only be changed to satisfy Alaskans, not to appease/appeal to anyone from anywhere else.

You could ask for a refund. Good luck with your wolfing.

People who come to Alaska do not have Alaskan trapper ethics. How is anybody supposed to know the the rules of the game here, if nobody tells them. People will follow them or not, but at least they will know what they are and why they have conflict, when they have it.

I have corrected the quote. It should read " Wolf populations have NEVER been endangered in or even threatened in Alaska."

I was so upset at the manual that I did not read my post as close as I should have for which I have corrected it.

As far as the Alaska Trappers Assoc. code of ethics, if the Alaska Trappers Assoc. wants to pin it on their foreheads I don't care but the manual is not just being sold to Alaskans. The manual is being sold to anyone who puts up their hard earned money. I don't think it right to collect other peoples money that are not part of the association and use the money to promote their own agenda. That's my take on it and this will be my last post about it.

As the ATA grew and was beginning to start chapters within the state in the early 80's it became important to establish a Code of Ethics as a guideline here in Alaska.

Alaskas has a long history of established traplines. Some have been trapped by families for several generations. In the early years when I arrived its was a no no to even ride someones trapline. Alaska has elected to not enact the Canadian Registered trapline scenario. Thus we believe in managing our own line and keep Government out of our business. We find areas that are open and physically cut our own lines and it can take years to finally work it and make it productive. Alaska is hungry country unlike other parts of the US. So if an individual trapper goes to all the work over the years to establish a line he is entitled to being left alone!

It's been over 40 years that the Code of Ethics was first published and this is the first complaint I have heard about of it. I was there in its conception and am proud of the work ATA I did on it! The sad thing is that it will not make an unethical trapper be ethical. If new trappers learn from the beginning it helps.

If you or anyone else needs more than basics to catch wolves you're not spending enough time studying their habits.

So, you didn’t ask for a refund?

If wolves have never been threatened or endangered in Alaska, is it so wrong of them to state that as such? That would be a great reason to allow continued trapping under sustained yield principles. I find it head scratching that would be triggering for ANY trapper,

Don’t let facts upset you because it’s different than where you reside or from your experience.

Good luck trapping wolves. I hope you find the info you’re seeking.

I think we should change your screen name to "Old Man Yelling at Clouds"

If you want to learn how to trap wolves,go hang out with the trappers who trap wolves and listen to what they have to say and watch what they do.
Then you can build on that thru your own experience after your apprenticeship is done.
You need a good attitude and be willing to provide something like sweat equity to those who are willing to bring you along on their lines while showing you the ropes.

When I took the wuff class , with our Jack as instructor, he mentioned the population stats of not only Idaho, but Montana and also Alaska as well. Just by way of giving interesting comparisons, as well as the regs in similarities and differences. The class found that info interesting. I was fascinated with every story, every statistic Jack offered to share.

On the other hand....I feel info about wuffs being plentiful , or not endangered or threatened, actually good to state in writing. Whoever sees any similar statements is potentially educated in the real truth of the status of wildlife that trappers surely are qualified to give.

It certainly doesn't hurt a thing.

It always has me smile when a voice of observation , at times, goes against some "reports" and says that wuffs are actually much more in abundance throughout Idaho and Montana than the stats report. Same as bears.

I like it that the three states are often the same in many similarities and the pride of living in them.

Slick Pan, you state "I don't think it right to collect other peoples money that are not part of the association and use the money to promote their own agenda." If you believe this, then i can only assume you don't purchase Subarus, Dawn soap, Girl Scout cookies, Proctor Gamble products, just to mane a few, that use your money to promote anti trapping agendas?

My experience is also that people who are offended by reading about "trapping ethics" are often those who badly need to read that list!

Pete

I agree, Pete. If you scroll through that list and take offense that a trapping organization supports those things, well....glad I don't trap near him.
And if he wasn't able to learn a single thing from that manual, he really needs to write one himself. He clearly is a Wolf Master.

The whole purpose of the manual is to influence someone reading it. Along with “ethics” it influences someone reading it on how to catch wolves. All any book, manual, or website can do is influence those reading it.
You OP has been a “negative” influence!

I enjoyed the Book and DVD, feel it to be well done.

Excellent job goes out ATA.

Gotta love a Debbie Downer

Interesting take. I’m still a little confused at how you can be offended by the code of ethics or the statement about wolves in Alaska. But in my line of business, thats an all too common theme-being offended.

What blows my mind is that Slick Pan could not find any useful information in the manuals 123 pages.
I must be as dumb as a box of rocks because just thumbing through the manual I see very informative bits of knowledge. Not sure there is similar knowledge collected in a single source elsewhere. If there is I would like to know where to find it.

I hope he asked for a refund on his purchase.

He might as well return it at this point.

I want one now.

I enjoyed the book and I think ATA did an awesome job in putting it together. All I can say is that after studying the book I feel that it made me a better wolf trapper and it certainly helped shorten the learning curve.

I have the wolf manual but I’ve loaned it out. This is in the back of the ADF&G regulations. I wonder how many people this has helped or hurt over the years?

For the life of me I cannot find what in there might be offensive (at least to an ethical trapper!) Perhaps Slick Pan could enlighten us if he gets a moment?

Pete

I'll go one better Slick. I'll buy it off you for double what you paid if you autograph it. I also lent mine out years ago but want to have a copy to keep as a memento next to my copy of the Pennsylvania trappers manual circa 1980ish. Like the PA guide I poured thru as a kid, I thought the ATA manual was a great guide to get started with back in our first season here in ID in 2011 when there wasn't anyone to learn from. Kudos to the AK guys for putting it together and sharing the wisdom. Since then, those of us that have "kinda" figured out what we're doing here in the L48 have been passing along the info at demos 3-4 times per year through our various state trapping organizations. It's pretty much free to attend Slick, but if there's an entrance fee I'll cover it for you if I'm there. Oh, I should warn you though, ID kinda abides by the same code of ethics, so you may not like that.

Let me know where to send the check for that manual, eh?

HOW DARE THE ATA PUSH THIS ON ME! THIS IS CLEARLY AN AGENDA!

I jokes. But seriously I would like to know what part anyone takes issue with in that, even people who are against trapping I think would find it pretty well written.

WOW. I cant imagine have the free time to complain about something like this.

Turning in violators is not always the best policy, IMHO. I think we just had a thread on this.

So #13 on the code of ethics doesn't apply to everyone?

I agree with Dirt. #13 and #11 would be the only ones I could really see anyone that was ethical having a problem with. I add #11 because I don't think you should help a landowner who is anti trapping until they have a problem. If they are anti trapping or anti hunting, then they should have to live/deal with the problems their stance causes them theirselves.

I see what bearcat is saying but how many anti land owners will really ever ask someone to take care of problem? In my mind there is also a big difference between a land owner who says please don't go on my land and who is anti trapping/hunting. Then again I've never really trapped by private land so have no experience.

I thought we are a nation of laws? Trappers are outnumbered by the anti's and the anti organizations have waaaaaaaaay more $$$ than trapping organizations, they also have lobbyists in DC to push their agendas. We cannot afford ANY bad press!! Antis love unethical trappers because they give them ammo and they help turn folks who are on the fence into antis. How we act and present ourselves as trappers will determine if our kids and grandkids will be able to trap in the future.

#12 has some things in it that require me to give away trade secrets, that I'm not necessarily gonna do. For me trapping is a competitive business and business is bad and I don't need to help my competitors to make it worse. I know, this is old school. In particular helping with methods and means, fur handling, and marketing.

Did you think after reading the book you’d be stacking wolves like cordwood? Haha, it’s a tool in the tool box.
The only mentor I’ve had was Heimo, Webb (last summers national convention)and some advice from some guys on here. No book is going to make you a successful wolf trapper….but I did spend a pile of $ on books about research/trapping them.
Aaaand wammo!

For the record, the O.P. started another thread on the main forum complaining about the class he had to take down south to trap wolves.
He was ticked that 3/4 of the class time was wasted on ethics and rules, and the rest of the time was spent on things he already knew.
I expect a new book from his Exellency any time, now!

More organizational based propaganda in the latest ATA Alaska Trapper magazine. Barely got the cover open and there it was!

I joke. Being a supporter of the ATA I approve of their message.

Clever fellow that I am, I notice that Slick Pan has not checked back in after the initial whining!

Pete

Maybe he is busy skinning wolves.

Gonna catch it for this one but would add if you can not bring yourself to convert to Conibear type traps for marten then at least quit posting pics of marten hanging from poles in foot traps. The antis just love those fresh pics of that sort of thing.

Cross


Crosspatch: Please note that the guidance in that alert refers to LARGE body grip traps. Has nothing to do with marten trapping. But then, we are lucky to have a choice of devices for trapping and don't have to knuckle under to what government bureaucrats think is "best" for us dumb trappers. I think YOU should choose whatever device works for you... and I will use whatever device works best for me.

Pete

Marten hanging out of trees in foot traps is a system that works for none of us with the general public.

Had my day with foot traps for marten and converted, out of respect for the animal, long before any law came in on it.

Nah, I am not going to derail Slick Pan’s thread with any talk of that nonsense.
If that is what you want to talk about, then I encourage you to start a thread about the subject.

I know the Anti's don't love Pete. I'm not sure if they care how marten are harvested. I think they hate all the ways.

I think the post above about marten pictures should have been on the thread with marten pictures, not here.

Has nothing to do with antis.
Ask the states where trapping is banned to find out it was the gen public,not antis.

Yay! The Maple Leaf train wreck has arrived!

I wonder why they banned conibears? You should actually research how these bans came about.

"Washington Initiative 713 was on the ballot as an initiative to the people in Washington on November 7, 2000. It was approved.

A “yes” vote supported classifying hunting animals with body-gripping traps or poison as a misdemeanor.

A “no” vote opposed classifying hunting animals with body-gripping traps or poison as a misdemeanor."

Here's one for you!

I guess Slick Pan got it finally. He is recommending the ATA Wolf Trapping Manual to a trapper on Trap Talk a couple hours ago that was having difficulty with wolves. "Wolf Trapping.....What a Drag"

That other thread is a fun read... Several folks picked up on Slick Pan's duplicity! In one post, he claims not to have read the Wolf Manual! Yet he proclaims it is not a useful tool for trappers!

Pete

I asked him why he’s recommending the book when before he was throwing the authors under the bus but didn’t even read it. Then we went back and forth with the little shots. He still hasn’t said if he’s actually got anything…..just a Lycan. The banter back & forth is between us is ok, as long as it’s funny. Everybody else laughing at the 2 rookies going back & forth….bunch a jerks, hahahaha.
And ya, this was one of the first wolf books on wolves I’ve bought…..no regrets. Reading the Frank Glaser one now, just started, really good.
Ordered The Real Wolf and got the 3 Stan Young books. Still haven’t read Last of the Loners….crap I got alotta reading ahead, no time to trap!

I think just reading various threads by some of the members here is pretty educational. For wolves, JR Pedersons thread has videos that are pretty good.
I have got bits and pieces of info over the years that, added up, have noticeably improved my catch.

I’m always finding new stuff on this site, never knew about this sub forum until a few days ago…lol. I can’t seem to find JR Pederson’s wolf stuff, must be spelling the name wrong or?

Shakeyjake , it's the AKHowler post below that's filled with good information as is Ryan's ok everyone who has wolves and catches them on a regular basis is well worth the time to read and a closer look .

Jim Massic sorry I'm sure I just butchered his last name and Pete were both a wealth of information when I took a wolf trapping class at the Western NTA in Miles City .

The wolves don't have much of a chance in this area with every rancher and ranch hand packing a rifle , but we're getting grizzly bears with in 20 miles of town go figure .

AKHowler's Trapline Journal. Spend the time to read JR's life adventures on his line. He is among the best. The thread is right on this section of the forum. I posted the link to him below.


https://trapperman.com/forum/ubbthreads.php/topics/4211144/akhowlers-trapline-journal#Post4211144

Thanks for the link Sharon! I’m only on page 3 but it’s good!

Dang it! Saw some fur that wasn’t fox in the mess, little yote tried to slip through. Never seem yote in this area.

Flank catch with the ram?

Yea, tried going through…..

Some of you Canucks and lower 48 guys set for wolves around corn fields? Whoulda thought?

Looks like a cattail swamp to me.

Yep when I was farming that is what some of my corn looked like but not quite that good ! You got him ! Thats what counts .

What kinda corn you growing up there…lol! There’s corn about 15 miles west of this swamp. Lots of yotes there, but there’s only 3 or 4 wolves around this area from what I can tell.
About 6 years ago there was a pack of at least a dozen around the farms, now less wolves there but lots of coyotes.

Here they like timber and avoid open ground. But farther south they live out in the sagebrush and the open breaks. I'd have to drive a few hours to find a cornfield and probably just as far to find a cattail swamp the size pictured.

There is some wheat country just west of me and my dad saw a wolf in a wheat field seven or eight years ago, but as a general rule they stuck to the timber and brush locally.

I like Ryan & Howlers threads because they don’t only show their successful sets, everybody has misses. A coworker had a few misses yesterday, some snares knocked over, and they went around some others. He fixed it up, added blocking & footholds. I hate adding too much blocking though, don't like to change the look of their runs too much.

Better to add snares to fill in than it is to add blocking for wolves.I dont worry much about knocked down snares or even snares that a wolf detects and walks around.That happens sometimes.I backtracked a wolf one winter and clearly seen where he walked around 7 different snares circling the jackpot before he got caught in number 8.
Cats no problem to block heavy.

Two rules: If you are wondering whether your snares are too low or too high they are too low. Better to miss than a hip catch.

When you think you have enough snares put out then put out some more at a jackpot. A good one is put a snare to one side of one they are walking around. Them thinking about the one they walked around and not the snare to one side. And step in from the side for the cute ones so you leave no foot print in the snow in the wolves line of travel. That works on cute fox too.

Height is the problem with the rams. I get my preferred height when I tie or hang it upside down from a tree….or I try and look for a spot where they’ll duck a bit to avoid a branches in a trail.

The manual is good…lol. Upside down ram hanging from a branch.

I found the manual informative; but then I'm not a Wolf Master.

The objection to a trapping organization pushing good ethics as an "agenda" perplexes me. Was something misstated or missed?

I have to wonder what kind of ethics the OP himself adheres to.

Jim

I'm guessing "flexible" ethics, which is to suggest non-existent!

Pete

Also interesting OP hasn’t been back.

Was this a troll?

He’s been posting on Trap Talk about outrageous weights of Montana wolves. In all fairness he said he was done with this thread.

I think the 65lb one I just got will be a stretch to hit 60” …..it’s hanging to dry after a quick bath. Just have to split the lips & ears once on the board. Need some good shears to clean up the feet too.

Do you not turn the nose also?

In the video I watched, Jim used shears & a knife to clean out the nose. Kinda pushing it inside out but not taking too much so the inside of the nose is still black.

Glad you paid attention. Turning the nose is part of the process with prepping wolves. Lots to go wrong in there if not handled properly.

It’s still pretty damp. I’m going to try boarding first thing in the morning. It cleaned up pretty well after 2 bath/rinse in the Rubbermaid tub. My garage is about 13 Celsius and 50% humidity. Think I’ll flip it Monday morning, but I’ll check it Sunday evening to see if it’s dry enough. Borax in the paws and stuff too.

I don't spend too much time on Trap Talk and must have missed that. How big is he saying they are? The biggest I've ever hung on the scales was 110. I know there are bigger ones, but not many that actually see a set of scales. At least not in this country, maybe I should trap Montana.

“Montana wolves average 125-150lbs”

I wish I weight my wall hanger I got last year. I dropped it off at JPs to get tanned on my way home from the shack. He figured 80-90, me and my bud figured 110-120. They sure get heavy moving them around though…lol

I'm still wanting to lay eyes on a genuine 50# plus wolverine.

Biggest one I caught to date was 93#. They don’t make a real good living down here on the coastline.

Yellowstone wolves have been captured at 142ish lbs if memory serves correct and that was after emptying their gut from the capture drugs.

But, to say the AVERAGE is 125-150 is ludicrous. That's the upper 5%.

Ok, well I highly doubt that they knew that they were sending it to a experienced trapper like you... Unless you elaborated "Hi i'm (Your Name) I'M A VERY EXPERIENCED TRAPPER," how would they know? I think it is a small thing that you are making a big deal out of! Some people may not know the ethics of it. That's like getting mad about a company sending the owners manuel to a build yourself bicycle even though you are a bike mechanic. They send it in case you don't know.

Why don't you write a book of all your secrets (saving a few back for Volume 2) and cash in, Dirt.

Jim

Slick, don’t just thumb through & look at the pictures. If you read it you’ll be stacking them like cord wood….lol..poke poke.

Are you in that area where the wolf quota was caught shutting down the season? Think it was 6 or something like that? If you get the chance to hang some snares, all I can say is when you think you’ve got enough….hang a bunch more.

Not reading the whole thread. Just responding to the OP.
A universal code of ethics is a good thing to have IMO.
One trapping association I am involved with has the following.


1. I will strive to follow all laws and regulations pertaining to wildlife management.
2. I ascribe to a professional code of conduct that embodies the traits of honesty,
sincerity and dedication.
3. I will show exceptionally high levels of concern and respect for people, property
and wildlife.
4. I will promote the understanding and appreciation of the many values of wildlife
and scientific wildlife management, as well as an appreciation for the economic
value of commercial trapping and related industries.
5. I acknowledge that CTM supports non-resident trapping and sound, scientific
wildlife management principles including, but not limited to: trapping, hunting,
and any other population control measures in accordance with Federal, State,
and local regulations.
6. I will provide expertise on trapping and managing wildlife, upon request, within
the limits of my experience, ability and legal authority.
7. I will promote competence and present an image worthy of the profession by
supporting high standards of education and performance.
8. I will strive to broaden my knowledge, skills and abilities to advance the
profession of commercial trapping.
9. I will treat my competition and the public in a respectful manner and in
accordance with honorable business practices.
10. I will encourage, through word and through deed, all Commercial Trappers to
adhere to this code.

I managed to snag this guy the other day, its the biggest wolf I've got trapping, guiding and hunting( that said still haven't handled many) It weighted 109lbs. It wasn't a great catch, the snare was in his mouth and the back of the neck, luckily he wasn't in it for very long. I have a friend that has trapped a lot over the years and he said he'd had swore he'd caught some 150-200lbs wolfs... until he started weighting them, he's never seen one over 120lbs( that's in the Yukon) Pretty easy for ppl to over estimate their weight but the scale doesn't lie.

Yep. By the time you haul it to the sleigh it’s easily over 100lbs…lol
Nice wolf!
I like those CF ski pants. I tell my buddy I can haul 2 Jerry cans of gas, 1 in each front pocket.

Nice looking wolf Stillar The heaviest I have weighed was 106

Stillar,your wolf looks like it just had a good meal.

A nice catch and a good hired hand and trapping partner !

Nice wolf, looks like a full belly. I've caught around 50, not a big sample size, but the biggest one was this year at 109 lbs. Only 2 others over 100, a bunch in the 98 lb range. I imagine they can eat close to 10 lbs in one helping of warm moose meat, so weight can vary a bit depending on when they get hooked up.

I caught one Tuesday that weighed 126. By far the biggest I've ever caught, or personally seen in the flesh. Looked purt near the size of a Shetland pony standing there in the trap. Probably migrated over from Montana, I hear they grow bigger there.

I've only weighed three or four wolves, the first one I ever caught the first year they opened a season here weighed 110, until this one I'd never caught one as big as that first one, so I didn't usually bother with weighing.

I have caught wolves over the years but not many the size that you have caught. How about some pictures of those big ones?

Here is a couple of mine.

I never weighed any wolves.
Caught some big ones over the years though.
Caught this one a few days ago,one of the bigger ones this year.
Fat bugger too.

Well I don't have much for good pictures, but here is the big one I just caught. Nighttime trap check in a ground blizzard with trees blowing across the trail behind me.

I snapped one picture with him in the trap, and when I looked at the picture later, he went behind a tree before the shutter snapped and I couldn't see him in the pic at all.

Only pictures of the first wolf I ever got I have, have people in them, and I won't post pictures of wolves with peoples faces in them on the internet. Besides, they were taken with 35mm camera so I don't have digital images.

Nice wolf bearcat!