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Need a "Growing Fruit Trees" 101 education #7988656
11/07/23 03:05 PM
11/07/23 03:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,466
Missouri
ol' dad Offline OP
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ol' dad  Offline OP
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Missouri
I'd like to plant some fruit trees on our farm so my daughters can enjoy the fruits of my labor in about 15 years. I'd like to plant 3 each of apple, pear, peach, persimmon, and cherry. I have about 2 acres picked out that is near and pond, so I'd always have a water source. Thinking maybe drip tape ran from a solar powered pump during the warm and dry summer months. There are a few local nurseries who sell fruit trees so I plan to consult with them before buying.

Just looking for some do's and don'ts from those with experience. I had one guy tell me you should never have a pear tree close to other fruit trees but he didn't give me a reason why. Will 2 acres be enough space for 15 trees of different species? I'd like to buy trees that are already at least 3 to 5' tall.

ol' dad


Re: Need a "Growing Fruit Trees" 101 education [Re: ol' dad] #7988686
11/07/23 03:49 PM
11/07/23 03:49 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,430
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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beaverpeeler  Offline
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Oregon
Dad used to say make a $10 hole for a $1 tree. But the best advice I can give is to make sure you plant when they’re still completely dormant (barefoot always preferred) and prune back heavily. If your tree already has scaffold branches 2-3 ft long stub them back to 6-8 inches. The roots of that tree were mostly lost when it was dug so the equivalent top of the tree needs to be lost as well. This is the biggest mistake most newbies make.
First year moderate fertilizer and regular water. Keep weed free with mulch or plastic or mechanically. Some fruit trees will need fungal sprays.

As far as spacing goes you can fit about 4-600 trees in two acres.
Good luck and if you need any specific info on a species feel free to reach out


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Need a "Growing Fruit Trees" 101 education [Re: ol' dad] #7988728
11/07/23 04:43 PM
11/07/23 04:43 PM
Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 527
Utah
foxhunter52 Offline
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Utah
Also stake it so it remains straight and put a wire cage around it if your in an area with rabbits or deer. Dormant oil in the spring and insect spray as needed. You can usually get that info form a nursery or university.

Re: Need a "Growing Fruit Trees" 101 education [Re: ol' dad] #7988748
11/07/23 05:22 PM
11/07/23 05:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,013
Georgia
warrior Offline
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Georgia
These guys got it. Get it started right as in right size hole, prune off broken and damaged at planting, head it back to balance the root and train and prune it right the first few years to build a strong well structured tree that can produce and carry a good crop of fruit.

Too many folks stick one in the ground and forget about it. Come back in three to five when they figure it should be bearing and wonder why it's either dead or a tangled mess.

Once established and well trained keep it that way. And don't be afraid to ruthlessly manage the fruit load each season because if you've done your job right it'll set more fruit than it can hope to fully fill out. How much depends on the type and cultivar.


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Re: Need a "Growing Fruit Trees" 101 education [Re: ol' dad] #7988773
11/07/23 06:08 PM
11/07/23 06:08 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,466
Missouri
ol' dad Offline OP
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ol' dad  Offline OP
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Missouri
great info! thanks! So many different varieties to choose from! The nursery I was planning on buying from said most of their trees are two years old and don't have branches. Should I spend the extra money and buy from a different supplier with older trees?

ol' dad

Re: Need a "Growing Fruit Trees" 101 education [Re: ol' dad] #7988775
11/07/23 06:09 PM
11/07/23 06:09 PM
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Posts: 2,711
The great cage state Colorado
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Monster Toms Offline
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The great cage state Colorado
This was day one of apple planting this spring. 4-6' bare root apples soaked for 3-4 days, plowed in 8" deep. Watered for 12hours that day then 12hours every 7 days after. trim damaged limbs that's about it. Planted watered and tied to the trellis same day.
Peaches and cherries same way just a little further apart. Nitrogen applied directly to the ground, everything else is sprayed.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]







Re: Need a "Growing Fruit Trees" 101 education [Re: ol' dad] #7988931
11/07/23 09:18 PM
11/07/23 09:18 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,430
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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beaverpeeler  Offline
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Oregon
Originally Posted by ol' dad
great info! thanks! So many different varieties to choose from! The nursery I was planning on buying from said most of their trees are two years old and don't have branches. Should I spend the extra money and buy from a different supplier with older trees?

ol' dad

No, you’ll do fine with un-limbed whips. No worry, stub them back to 2-3 ft and they’ll make branches. For fruit trees size is measured in stem diameter at the base. Ie: 1/2 “ or 3/4 “


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Need a "Growing Fruit Trees" 101 education [Re: ol' dad] #7988960
11/07/23 09:50 PM
11/07/23 09:50 PM
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Posts: 719
Jackson Co, KS
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NEYotetrapper Offline
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Jackson Co, KS
Feel free to PM me if you like we are Kansas' leading producer of fruit trees, not sure where you are located in MO but we are only an hour west of KC. Sound advice above, but you might want to consider root stock type as well and if you haven't done a soil test that is beneficial as well. Some soil amendments are easier to do before planting than after.

Re: Need a "Growing Fruit Trees" 101 education [Re: ol' dad] #7988974
11/07/23 09:59 PM
11/07/23 09:59 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,442
WI
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I’ll add that you might want a rabbit guard around the trunk…I’ve used 1/4 wire mesh. The wire mesh prevents rabbits from girdling the tree but also lets air flow so mice don’t use it for nesting. I did about a 6 inch diameter x 36” tall…we get plenty of snow here and you need to get the trunk protected above the snow line. In Missouri, I’m not sure how much of a girdling problem you’ll have. I think rabbit damage happens when they are looking for food after substantial snow.

I also would use at least a 6 foot high fence around the tree to protect it from deer browsing. I did about a 6 foot diameter and it worked good.

Re: Need a "Growing Fruit Trees" 101 education [Re: ol' dad] #7988977
11/07/23 10:02 PM
11/07/23 10:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,013
Georgia
warrior Offline
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warrior  Offline
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Georgia
Deer will do your pruning for you down here, lol. Leave you a stub if you ain't on top of it.


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Re: Need a "Growing Fruit Trees" 101 education [Re: NEYotetrapper] #7989026
11/07/23 11:04 PM
11/07/23 11:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 1,442
WI
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Originally Posted by NEYotetrapper
Feel free to PM me if you like we are Kansas' leading producer of fruit trees, not sure where you are located in MO but we are only an hour west of KC. Sound advice above, but you might want to consider root stock type as well and if you haven't done a soil test that is beneficial as well. Some soil amendments are easier to do before planting than after.


I agree with rootstock…it’s a smaller tree but grows twice as fast. Idk why but maybe less transplant shock.

Re: Need a "Growing Fruit Trees" 101 education [Re: BvrRetriever] #7989310
11/08/23 09:55 AM
11/08/23 09:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 63,585
Minnesota
330-Trapper Offline

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Originally Posted by BvrRetriever
I’ll add that you might want a rabbit guard around the trunk…I’ve used 1/4 wire mesh. The wire mesh prevents rabbits from girdling the tree but also lets air flow so mice don’t use it for nesting. I did about a 6 inch diameter x 36” tall…we get plenty of snow here and you need to get the trunk protected above the snow line. In Missouri, I’m not sure how much of a girdling problem you’ll have. I think rabbit damage happens when they are looking for food after substantial snow.

I also would use at least a 6 foot high fence around the tree to protect it from deer browsing. I did about a 6 foot diameter and it worked good.

Good advice


NRA and NTA Life Member
www.BackroadsRevised@etsy.com




Re: Need a "Growing Fruit Trees" 101 education [Re: NEYotetrapper] #7989350
11/08/23 10:49 AM
11/08/23 10:49 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,466
Missouri
ol' dad Offline OP
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ol' dad  Offline OP
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Posts: 1,466
Missouri
Originally Posted by NEYotetrapper
Feel free to PM me if you like we are Kansas' leading producer of fruit trees, not sure where you are located in MO but we are only an hour west of KC. Sound advice above, but you might want to consider root stock type as well and if you haven't done a soil test that is beneficial as well. Some soil amendments are easier to do before planting than after.



Can you share a link to your business? I will check it out. I'm in NE Missouri. Can you elaborate on what "rootstock" is? I see trees listed as dwarfs and semi-dwarfs. What is the difference and are there advantages from one over the other?

ol' dad

Re: Need a "Growing Fruit Trees" 101 education [Re: ol' dad] #7989364
11/08/23 11:09 AM
11/08/23 11:09 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,755
eastern washinghton
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70sdiver Offline
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if there full size trees space them about 25 feet apart.



Re: Need a "Growing Fruit Trees" 101 education [Re: ol' dad] #7989403
11/08/23 12:01 PM
11/08/23 12:01 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,430
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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beaverpeeler  Offline
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Oregon
Some rootstocks are mostly about restricting the tree’s growth. Like dwarf or semi-dwarf. These rootstocks are grown out as clones and so the orchardist can expect identical growth results from all his trees. Some rootstocks were bred for other characteristics such as nematode resistance or drought tolerance. Others are better for heavy or sandy soils.
Rootstocks are planted out in the spring and then bud grafted in late summer. The following spring the rootstock is headed off just above the graft union. The first year whip may grow 4-6’ on some species. That whip is then headed back and scaffold branches are produced.

Semi dwarf trees typically bear sooner than those on standard roots. Personally for a homestead I like to have a few apple trees on standard roots and let the tree get big.

Last edited by beaverpeeler; 11/08/23 12:02 PM.

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Re: Need a "Growing Fruit Trees" 101 education [Re: ol' dad] #7989407
11/08/23 12:05 PM
11/08/23 12:05 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,430
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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beaverpeeler  Offline
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Oregon
One of the good reasons to deal with local or regional nurseries is they already have taken into account local conditions and choose rootstocks and varietals for those conditions.


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Need a "Growing Fruit Trees" 101 education [Re: ol' dad] #7989460
11/08/23 01:13 PM
11/08/23 01:13 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,466
Missouri
ol' dad Offline OP
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ol' dad  Offline OP
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Missouri
great info! Thanks BP!

ol' dad

Re: Need a "Growing Fruit Trees" 101 education [Re: ol' dad] #7999590
11/20/23 07:45 PM
11/20/23 07:45 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,430
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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Oregon
Some before and after pics on fruit tree pruning for newly planted stock. These are peach trees I just planted:
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


My fear of moving stairs is escalating!
Re: Need a "Growing Fruit Trees" 101 education [Re: beaverpeeler] #7999630
11/20/23 08:41 PM
11/20/23 08:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 26,013
Georgia
warrior Offline
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warrior  Offline
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Georgia
Originally Posted by beaverpeeler
Some before and after pics on fruit tree pruning for newly planted stock. These are peach trees I just planted:
[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]


That's the way it's done. Open the center to get light and air to all sides, leave three to four main scaffolds that'll be your solid frame for years to come. And have them down within reach.

Beaverpeeler, I know you know but could you describe the why for ol' dad.

Would this be how you do apples and pears?


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Re: Need a "Growing Fruit Trees" 101 education [Re: ol' dad] #7999763
11/20/23 10:35 PM
11/20/23 10:35 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,430
Oregon
beaverpeeler Offline
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beaverpeeler  Offline
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Posts: 11,430
Oregon
There are different strategies involved, but the one I favor is as Warrior mentioned; leaving 3-4 scaffold branches to form an open center to allow light in and air to circulate. When your trees come from the nursery some have side branches where you want them. Some don't but you can stub it off with zero side branches...no fear, it will sprout lateral branches all the way down to the graft union the following spring, just select the 3-4 you want to keep. I try to choose branches that have a less acute angle as these form stronger scaffolds once they get big.

My example here are peaches but I do all my fruit trees pretty much the same way. You can see that I took out over 80% of the top which will help this tree to get off to a good start since the pruned back roots don't have to support so much of a top.

And when possible plant as early as possible! Fall if possible. The nursery dug these trees just days before I planted them, so once roots begin to grow it is into their permanent planting spot...not in a bin filled with sawdust.

Tree roots always break out of dormancy long before top of the tree does.


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