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Re: Looking to buy a new rifle [Re: Striperfred] #8019034
12/12/23 01:02 PM
12/12/23 01:02 PM
Joined: Feb 2007
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Striperfred Offline OP
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Striperfred  Offline OP
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The .243 she was carrying was my first.gun, I have taken dozens of deer with this thing, I’m not a hater, comes down to bullet selection, I selected wrong on due to lights out accuracy of the 85 grain sst, going to mess around with 90 or 95 gr. Ttsx. As I said before she hit 2 out 3 shots running in the woods, once in neck, once square in the front shoulder, the neck shot was a bullet splatter and the front shoulder didn’t get quite good enough penetration to drop him. Thank you all for your very good input, gonna mull this over and probably buy another mid range caliber.


life is good......
Re: Looking to buy a new rifle [Re: Osky] #8019041
12/12/23 01:25 PM
12/12/23 01:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2017
Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Offline
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Marion Kansas
Originally Posted by Osky
Originally Posted by Scuba1
If you can't hit the right place with a 243 then a heavier recoiling rifle is not the answer. What she needs it trigger time and an understanding in deer anatomy. If you load that 243 with something like a 90 grain TSX or TTSX, there is not a deer on this continent that will walk away inside 300 yards IF you hit the right spot.
If you want more energy down range, you will get a harder thump on the shoulder in return. You just cant beat physics.

Just my 2 cents worth and probably worth less than that.


Typing this thought brought on by the above post, not a slap at the OP.

Too many people buy an extra box of shells and go to the range, lay over a truck hood or side, set at a makeshift table etc and burn those 20 shells up on a target. That doesn’t necessarily make you ready for the hunt or even a hunter, Nor does just passing a hunter safety course and purchasing a gun.
There is a lot more to take into consideration during the build up and trigger pull. To be a hunter. There should also be ever-present the thought of a search and recovery involved and an honesty within of wether you can accomplish that critical component of a successful hunt, in whatever terrain you have chosen. That factor hinges strongly on the shooters ability to stay on the sights and see and understand the impact location.

There was a thread here a day or two back where a deer was shot and left until the morning retrieval. A good bunch of guys here called the hit pretty darn well just from explanation of the deers reaction to the hit. Terrific example of knowledge seldom taught these days and should be stressed more.

Hunting with other good hunters every chance to put a “newby”” of any age on a hit trail should be taken advantage of. That’s where the learning happens blood on the trail or not.
Hooved animals leave trails some very subtle, but they are there.

This is a long way around to saying a .243 is just fine, in a HUNTERS hands. I know plenty of guys on this site and others who are hunters. To them a blood trail is certainly no deal breaker in choosing caliber. No matter the caliber things happen, blood trails are no guarantee. Comfort, practice and familiarity with the weapon, fit and tuning of the chosen weapon, conditions/limitations when using the weapon, and again holding in to see the result of the shot, hopefully on the quarry.

A couple weeks ago I posted a tale here of a young lady with me on her first big game hunt and the success she had. She took a fine mule deer buck at a fair distance with a .243 loaded with Hornady 90gr ballistic tips. I knew that was a small hole in and don’t count on an exit set up. As we waited for the opening to shoot, guns ready I had plenty of time to switch her over to the .270 I was carrying. She had practiced a lot of rounds, different rifles ahead of time with me from a .17 up to a 30.06 with a brake. I knew she could handle the .270 just fine.
I left her on the .243 because I knew I could track down whatever happened. Even on dry broken prairie. The bullet did exactly what I thought after breaking two ribs, stayed inside. After the shot and she calmed down our first walk was to the hit site and picked up the scuff marks where the buck bolted, then followed what there was straight on to the dead buck. No blood trail at all, no biggy.
The deer wasn’t far, I saw the hit was good and she saw the deer “hump” with the hit as well. All good things I think she learned and retained. No heroics, Indian secret knowledge, armor piecing do all bullets and rifles, or red spray just hunting 101 and some experienced guidance made it all come together.
I think basic knowledge, experience and common sense trump’s technology in many cases and needs to be more leaned on again. “Thump the magic rifle” is just a myth.

Osky

I expect exit wounds and blood trails in our conditions. Some cover is heavy enough you ain't seeing tracks or seeing deer unless your within 10 foot of it(sometimes less). It's not hard to find a bullet for a 243 that will do this within 200 yds and has great terminal performance.

Re: Looking to buy a new rifle [Re: Striperfred] #8019068
12/12/23 02:07 PM
12/12/23 02:07 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Tennessee
Scuba1 Offline
"color blind Kraut"
Scuba1  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2007
Tennessee
If one wants an exit wound, choose a bullet that will do that. Last year I loaded up some 62 grain TSX for the 223 WSSM and it anchors a deer on the spot with a high shoulder shot and I did not recover th bullet. Obviously that would not happen with say a 50 gran V max. Choose the right tool for the job in hand. We are so lucky today as we have a bullet for every situation in almost any caliber we want to use.I guess the downside to that is that we have a lot of wrong choices of bullets in almost any caliber we choose.
Edit:
I forgot to mention, that where I hunt ( my property) its a very similar scenario to the OP's with thick briars in places and new grows poplar sticks growing that need thinning out, but there is only so much one guy can do. The point being that I can't afford a shot where I need to do any form of tracking. either it would end up lost in the thick stuff or on a neighboring property. So I aim to anchor them right where they stand. Yes you do loose half a pound of meet with a high shoulder shot. But you don't loose the whole deer.

Last edited by Scuba1; 12/12/23 03:14 PM.

Let's go Brandon

"Shall not comply" with morons who don't understand "shall not infringe."
Re: Looking to buy a new rifle [Re: Striperfred] #8019081
12/12/23 02:25 PM
12/12/23 02:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2013
Northern MN
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Osky Offline
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There are partition type bullets in .243 to 100gr and years ago you could get110gr but I’m not sure on that anymore.

Osky



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“ I said I don’t have much use for traps these days, never said I didn’t know how to use them.”
Re: Looking to buy a new rifle [Re: jbyrd63] #8019112
12/12/23 03:54 PM
12/12/23 03:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
central Haudenosaunee, the De...
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white marlin Online content
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central Haudenosaunee, the De...
Originally Posted by jbyrd63
His hunting place is going to get thicker as time goes on.


not for long, it won't.

in relatively short order, that brush will turn into saplings, then begin to thin out naturally into poletimber (wildlife desert)

Re: Looking to buy a new rifle [Re: Striperfred] #8019132
12/12/23 04:18 PM
12/12/23 04:18 PM
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Agree Marlin. Log a section every ten years for good habitat.
Some guys do it in a diamond pattern.
It makes the funnel where you want it.

Fred has the girl ever tried a 30-30 carbine?
I knew some smaller hunters that did quite well with them.

I still say rifle fit is more important than the stamp.
Heck bows kill a boat load a year.





Re: Looking to buy a new rifle [Re: Striperfred] #8019135
12/12/23 04:25 PM
12/12/23 04:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2018
Missouri
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HayDay Offline
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Missouri
Originally Posted by Striperfred
The .243 she was carrying was my first.gun, I have taken dozens of deer with this thing, I’m not a hater, comes down to bullet selection, I selected wrong on due to lights out accuracy of the 85 grain sst, going to mess around with 90 or 95 gr. Ttsx. As I said before she hit 2 out 3 shots running in the woods, once in neck, once square in the front shoulder, the neck shot was a bullet splatter and the front shoulder didn’t get quite good enough penetration to drop him. Thank you all for your very good input, gonna mull this over and probably buy another mid range caliber.


Think your answer is in there somewhere, but it's not going to require a new rifle to correct. Running shots in the woods? If she is hitting those, she has my utmost respect, as successful shots at running deer are a "long shot" for most, and that would include me.

First report I ever heard about the SST was from a young man working as range officer at an MDC shooting range. His complaint? They blow up meat. What say? So he was using a rapid expanding bullet to try to punch thru a shoulder? Move behind the shoulder and punch thru ribs to blow out lungs........and that is a good place to send an SST. The meat saver shot. What he needed to be punching thru shoulder was a tougher bullet along the lines of a cup and core or partition. Give her a factory level 100 grain partition and a standing deer and get a knife ready. You are going to be needing one soon.


Easy to vote your way into socialism, but impossible to vote your way out of it.
Re: Looking to buy a new rifle [Re: HayDay] #8019183
12/12/23 05:47 PM
12/12/23 05:47 PM
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Marion Kansas
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Yes sir Offline
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Originally Posted by HayDay
Originally Posted by Striperfred
The .243 she was carrying was my first.gun, I have taken dozens of deer with this thing, I’m not a hater, comes down to bullet selection, I selected wrong on due to lights out accuracy of the 85 grain sst, going to mess around with 90 or 95 gr. Ttsx. As I said before she hit 2 out 3 shots running in the woods, once in neck, once square in the front shoulder, the neck shot was a bullet splatter and the front shoulder didn’t get quite good enough penetration to drop him. Thank you all for your very good input, gonna mull this over and probably buy another mid range caliber.


Think your answer is in there somewhere, but it's not going to require a new rifle to correct. Running shots in the woods? If she is hitting those, she has my utmost respect, as successful shots at running deer are a "long shot" for most, and that would include me.

First report I ever heard about the SST was from a young man working as range officer at an MDC shooting range. His complaint? They blow up meat. What say? So he was using a rapid expanding bullet to try to punch thru a shoulder? Move behind the shoulder and punch thru ribs to blow out lungs........and that is a good place to send an SST. The meat saver shot. What he needed to be punching thru shoulder was a tougher bullet along the lines of a cup and core or partition. Give her a factory level 100 grain partition and a standing deer and get a knife ready. You are going to be needing one soon.

When I pick a bullet/ caliber I want one that will work for neck, head on, high shoulder and hard quartering shots and punch through any bone in the shoulder. I don't want to pass a buck of a lifetime or miss a shot by a little bit and not recover a deer because I was shooting a fragile bullet that can only penetrate 3/8 inch of ribcage and splatters. Things happen while hunting and a bullet with that kind of terminal performance is too limiting. Hornady should state its only a good bullet for broadside through ribcage only not that's its an excellent deer bullet. A good bullet will perform on any of those valid shot placements.

Re: Looking to buy a new rifle [Re: Striperfred] #8019187
12/12/23 05:58 PM
12/12/23 05:58 PM
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Green County Wisconsin
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we call the meat saver shot the intersection of the front leg and spine ,because then your meat doesn't run away so another hunter can put a round in it and call it theirs.

if you were hunting the middle of 400 acres in an open field where you can see the deer run your meat saver shot could be through the ribs take the lungs and you could just drive the truck to the deer to pick it up.

if your hunting a 40 your never more than 220 yards to a fence


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
Re: Looking to buy a new rifle [Re: Striperfred] #8019263
12/12/23 07:29 PM
12/12/23 07:29 PM
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Wyoming
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Tikka T3, 7 mm, 08 with 11 ounces mercury recoil suppressor installed in the butt stock. It will kick like a 243 and hit like a 7 x 57 no muzzle blast from a muzzle brake. It would also help to have the length of pull adjusted to fit her


“The world is governed by very different personages from what is imagined” B. Disraeli

Re: Looking to buy a new rifle [Re: Striperfred] #8019743
12/13/23 10:49 AM
12/13/23 10:49 AM
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From about 1980 to now I hunted a large for where I hunt arear of mixed variety of trees Mostly oaks popolar maple and cherry .It was in the 1970's put into a management plan for the harvest of lumber . Some areas where clear cut when the plan was started ,Other parts of the forest where not cut at all and still others where cut either by taking out only certain species of trees or size .So it was getting cut in away that as time went on all the different stages of tree growth clear cuts early successional another word for head high blackberry & raspberry briars pokeberry multiflora rose locust cherry maple popular mixed oaks and all so thick you needed to crawl on hands and knees to get through And carrying and small pruners help a lot in being able to remove sone branches that it was not otherwise easy to get around pole stage and selective cut areas where part of the habitat And of course around the woods where ag fields And crop rotation and terrain made some of those areas great spots to place stands to get shooting at deer that where traveling on escape route that crossed open fields S o the point is if you chose which type of rifle to use in certain types of cover you can be short changing yourself when it comes to being where the deer are The idea that certain calibers are better brush guns than some other calibers is over stated No bullet is designed to cut trees off as it is on it.s way to a target animal Andit is also possible that a skinny bullet will slide between trees Being a good shot is the primary way to get the most out of any gun you shot An of course recoil has a role in that . Several mention the 7 mm 08 some others pointed out the 7x57 the 6.5 Swede I was a Ruger 308 M77 in the ultra light model I was concerned about the recoil But it wa a great handling gun and it,s light weight made it a nice rifle to use when waking or in a tree stand It ws a gun that fit me and hereforeI wa ble to get good shots when using it .There i nothing wrong with the 243 as a deer caliber And I would also add that a 25.06 a 257 Roberts a 280 a270 a 264 mag plus many others will and have been used to kill many deer So I would say buy another gun You can never have to many But keep in mind there is no perfect caliber or type of action Bolt /pump/lever that will kill every time it goes off the shooter is the main factor in success Get a gun that fits you well Use it where it is best suited for and practice with it by using it to hunt ground hogs or other types of critters that will provide a way to get shooting that will mimic your deer hunting situation And again if you can buy another gun You will be happier if you have options

Re: Looking to buy a new rifle [Re: Striperfred] #8019768
12/13/23 11:31 AM
12/13/23 11:31 AM
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Green County Wisconsin
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I think part of what he is saying she hit it 2 of 3 times on a running deer

1 round seemed to get bullet blow up on the shoulder hit without getting in to the organs

1 round hit the neck and didn't catch the spine

1 round the miss seems to have been deflected by brush

a heavier bullet or harder bullet may have made a difference at least on that shoulder hit

expansion is nice but when it is all you have and you dump energy without penetration you can make a wound that doesn't stop the deer from going a long ways

a better and or heavier bullet might very well have made that shoulder shot a stopping one or one that punched 2 holes leaving a blood trail to recover the deer.

with perfect shot placement a 22 short will work
but if your looking for the most forgiving round or bullet , something that can make 2 holes

heavier has a better chance at making 2 holes it has more weight to shed and keep on trucking.

recoil being the issue if your willing to give up range you can have heavy and modest recoil

max needed range is a good question to ask if the answer is you can seldom see >100 yards then don't sweat less range take the heavier with less recoil.

if not start testing bullets that can both expand and keep 90+% of their weight like bonded or monolithic

I know guys used to do tests with wet news paper to test expansion you don't need a perfect test you need a repeatable test medium

if you took 4 inches of news print sandwiched it in 1/2 inch plywood scraps and shot it with the current round , the heavier previously used 243 round and a few other options if you can figure out where you stop the bullet your questioning then look for a bullet or bullet cartridge combo that exceeds that but still gets you recoil goal you have the solution.


America only has one issue, we have a Responsibility crisis and everything else stems from it.
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