I have a small hay field I would like to sow into existing grass/alfalfa stand. I don't want to work it up and seed due to more problems with weeds and I don't want to destroy the grass that is there now.

Has anyone drilled in Sainfoin or orchard grass in existing grass? What is your experience with either crop the pros or cons.

Not sure if orchard grass seeding can compete with an existing sod, even if the field is grazed or cut short, and you say you don't want to destroy the existing stand so glyphosate is out.
Perennial rye might make it and it's a high nutrition grass, if it will grow in your zone.

Alternatively, will liming and fertilizing your existing field thicken up what's already there?

No idea on the sainfoin

Snowy i have broadcasted orchardgrass in my pastures a few times when it started getting thin and love it as always. Early soring grower around here. I pastured livestock here for 20 yrs on fawn fescue, clover both white and red, a bit of bluegrass and birdsfoot treefoil, orchardgrass and timothy... Animals did well. Orxhardgrass is very easy to get going by broadcasting into an existing stand.

Thanks to all who replied.

I have frost seeded for years and two years ago I did large areas where hay yards have been, and grass was killed off and weedy. Broadcasted alfalfa in those areas and pulled a small harrow over it a few times and drug a log around and stuff took hold very well. Thicker than hair on a dog.

I was wondering about grasses that I might implement with no till or use a pull type broadcaster than harrow it in. I have a large broadcaster will hold 200 lbs.

I do want a perennial will hay the field but want to fill in some bare spots.

Anyone else with experience of grasses that are hardy and drought resistant let me what has worked. I haven't been able to get in and talk to Ag people but will at some time and could use the knowledge you give me before I go in.

Thanks

No-til will probably be better for grass to get started in existing sod. The soil to seed contact will be better and it gets to moisture. Orchard grass is competative, but needs a good start. We have dairy farmers around here that very good luck no tilling meadow fescure and a legume into their older alfalfa-grass hay fields to extend their life. They get a yield bump and the quality if good enough for younger heifers and milking cows.

Bryce

bblwi >>> thanks I wish I had a no till drill. This field I can irrigate if I want too, Ii haven't because it is an irregular piece of ground, I want to be more productive.

Without knowing your soils - kind of hard to recommend. When I was up in ND - predominant non-native cool season grasses were bluegrass and smooth brome. Alfalfa grew randomly in the road ditches like yellow sweet clover does down here. Sainfoin does grow well in MT just not sure how to establish it. If it is rather small seeded - likely could be frost seeded but it never hurrts to run it in a no-till drill or possibly even an air seeder (we dont have those down here but everyone up in ND had one). Lots and lots of smooth brome along roadsides were hayed in ND - so I can only guess you would have a decent chance of getting brome to thicken up your fields. Many excellent pasture grasses up north I never heard about like wheat grasses, needle grass, junegrass, wildrye all growing in cool season pastures. I could only dream of such forages down here.....timothy, orchard, bluegrass and brome all should grow well as introduced cool seasons.

Your local NRCS office should be able to get you in touch with a forage specialist or range specialist and they will know much better for your soils. If you are somewhat proficient - you can get into websoilsurvey and poke around and you should be a general soil ID and forage suitability

I had one organic farmer who grew the best stand of medium red clover I had ever seen in my life - he then tilled it under and almost cussed it as he said it was hard to terminate - this was all in south east ND - much more precip than west river

Snowy ,not exactly what you wanted but a thought . What is your existing grass ? If it is smooth brome here is what I might consider ,take your field cultivator (lots of them are 6 inch spacing S tines ) set the gauge wheels so you are in the ground about 3 inches with the points .Give it 2 cultivation s a straight and then a diagonal .You will kill some weeds but stimulate the remaining grass and alfalfa.then drill or broadcast orchard grass and roll . I like orchard grass ,it comes back a bit after haying . I miss doing that kind of stuff since we sold the irrigated place we had . If you hay it you will keep the weeds back .

g smith Good Point my dad used a harrow set light' right away in spring when the soil was still damp but notwet enough to leave grooves from the tractor

Thank You for the help!!! Yes I will talk to some people on what I want to do and see what they recommend.



Yep, that is pretty much how I am going to prepare and seed. Rolling it would be a important thing to do and I could make something work there. I believe I drove and packed when I broadcasted the alfalfa I planted and it did great.

Thanks g smith.

Your county extension or like might have no till seeders you can rent .

I never thought of that!!! Thanks I will do some checking for sure.

Anyone have any experience with Sudan Grass? I believe this can be sown into existing pasture ground?