I have some experience in predator prey relationships and rebuilding ungulate populations. Nobody is following the science or the math or wildlife management 101. The first thing you do when you have increasing predator influence on your ungulates is try to increase the productivity of your prey by not having man kill the females of the prey. It is done all the time here. Controlling predators is far more difficult than controlling humans. Female harvest is generally allowed where populations are not being regulated by predators and man has to control ungulate numbers. It is counterproductive to harvest females when you are trying to increase deer numbers. This is why buck only hunting began in the early 1900's to rebuild devastated deep populations.

You are missing the whole point as usual. The predators were introduced, Prior to this introduction, The hunters were doing just fine, not perfect but just fine. So a thinking man would say, Lets de-introduce a few introductees and get this back to where WE want the population .
The carrying capacity is already known and it is more than the population, If man introduces a predator and the population drops significantly, Hmmmmm, Maybe manage the predator until deer levels rebound, THEN we will know the level of predators to manage.
You must be using common core math.

Well, a very good friend (hunting & fishing buddy) is a retired WDNR Wildlife Biologist. Listening to him and other retired WL guys, WDNR has not used science to manage our deer herd in 20 plus years, politics has oversight.

No doubt, the wolf population needs better management (can we say politics... again!). I hunt the far north and remember when WDNR issued huge numbers of doe tags, way too many, in our opinions.

While the wolves are natural predators, bears and coyotes are considerably worse on the fawn population. Our trail cams up north have recorded a significant increase in coyote activity.

Also, there are many residents up north who feed deer and ignore all of the reasons not to. One neighbor up there who does, doesn't care that his feeding station is a "buffet" for predators, despite our efforts to educate him.

Wisconsin deer "management" has been a perfect storm for some time.

Hows that predator management going?

It’s always been about extremes. And lagging data. Look at every specie that is over regulated. Otter, cats, wolves. Look at the liberal populations beaver, deer coyotes. All cycle “some” get overdone. Under harvest is more detrimental to a specie because it leads to hard adjustments and promotes waste. Must be a Wisconsin thing.

It makes sense to reduce the harvest of females, but to reduce predator populations would accelerate the growth. Predators have the largest affect on young-of-the-year survival. Increasing YOY survival is the quickest road to increasing the population. That can be done by reducing the number of females in the hunter harvest, or by reducing the number of teeth in the woods.

H - (d2) = d1
H+W-(d2) =d0

630k licenses sold in 1981, record harvest of 166,673 deer.

553k licenses sold in 2023, harvest of 175,100 (9 day gun season only)

Archery hunting has taken off substantially in 40 years as well. I don't have those numbers from the 80s, but in 2023 there were an additional 90k deer shot with bow and crossbow. Plus all the extra seasons.

People hunt differently now. More smaller parcels where guys don't push deer around for fear of their deer getting shot by the neighbors. Deer drives are few and far between. I was part of a deer drive on a square mile of county forest in Central Wisconsin this year. Saw 9 or 10 deer myself including a small buck I passed, the rest does. Plenty of deer out there if you want to put in the work to find them. I also saw 4 wolves on that drive....

Thank you. I didn't use those words but that's my point....

Maybe Posco can chime in again. I remember reading years ago that the Maine DNR thought the coyote was the problem for fawn loss contributing to low deer numbers.

A subsequent study proved for the most part it was black bears inflicting most of the damage.

I'm sure the wolves are a serious problem, but not the only one.

You own a 22 magnum? Black bear is protected in our eastern co to the point they are a problem. Trash cans destroyed. Crops destroyed. Might be unrelated but also low deer numbers. BUT They can be gotten rid of. Let me ask you . If a possum was eating your chickens would you call DNR?

The current dip in the deer population in Northern Wi. mirrors the current rise in the wolf population.Im not giving all predators a pass, but the writing is on the wall. If we do not start managing wolves you can manage the whitetails into oblivion.

When I was trapping beaver in December there was wolf tracks on every pond. Rarely crossed a deer. My mind started to wonder, if there ain’t no deer what are those wolves gonna eat? Me? May have to start packing. Wondering why they like those beaver ponds so much one pond the beaver was coming out of a hole in the ice. The snow revealed the wolf sat next to the hole. No evidence he got them tho.

I think that season a couple years back accelerated population growth. It is suspected in other species.

Minnesota's wolf population is 4 to 5 times that of Wisconsin's, let that sink in.

I believe the wolf density is as high or higher in some of the northern counties in WI as it is in MN.

Cuzk they killed our northern deer.
Finding new hunting grounds.

well it is a step closer like it or not

https://www.channel3000.com/news/as...FibmT411fzl1updb-JUZpXm4kqnauD5aB5G-t1Pk

What I don't get is why the citizens and the hunters in the northern forest zone are letting politicians play biologist when they already have a method for reducing antlerless harvest via the CDAC. Why paint with such a broad brush when the options are already there and not being utilized?

Everybody says they dislike the politics in game management, but then run crying to the legislators. Watch, it'll pass and the same folks will bemoan a 40% drop in deer harvest next year, completely ignoring the elimination of antlerless tags. Yes, people really are that stupid.

Does Gary Alt still work for Wisconsin?

Evers has more vetoes than any other governor in Wisconsin history, so nothing is certain at this point.