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Re: Christians - Gap Theory?
[Re: Giant Sage]
#8149689
06/04/24 01:40 PM
06/04/24 01:40 PM
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Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 10,371
Indiana
Providence Farm
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trapper
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 10,371
Indiana
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A couple things I am totally convinced of and you'll never change my mind. I have spent the last 40 years studying this.
1) What we see in nature and in humans is not the result of millions of happy little accidents. Especially the beginning of life springing from non-life. That's preposterous. There is evidence of design every where you look and design must have a designer.
2) The Earth as we know it is not as old as so called scientists want you to believe. There is plenty of science that backs up the age of the earth as we know it to be a lot younger than millions of years. There has to be a first man and woman, and I believe the description of the man and woman in the book of Genesis is as accurate depiction as the people who passed along the stories of creation could keep them, down through the eons before there were written languages. I also think the concept of original sin is important to the entire narrative of God's relationship to man through the ages.
3) There is so much evidence of a flood it's not even debatable. The ice age resulted from it, tectonic plate movement was involved with it. The entire climate of the earth changed with it, even people started living much shorter lives. The large reptiles couldn't survive the new climate because of the change in the Ozone layer. Throughout the middle east and even africa, aboriginal peoples have a story about a worldwide flood where their ancestors were saved by building a boat. Were there dinosaurs on the ark? It's actually a very plausible theory that young dinosaurs or eggs could have been saved. Either way, the things that happened to create the flood is a very explainable reason for the end of the dinosaurs.
So many scientists are stuck thinking that what they see today has always been slowly changing and you need millions of years to explain it away, so they throw out any scientific evidence that doesn't fit their preconceived beliefs. The history of the Earth is not the result of millions of years of slow change, it is the result of a series of cataclysmic events. When you realize that, the history of the Bible makes a lot more sense.
I don't know much and I admit I know a lot less than I used to think I did. But there are a small number of these cornerstones I am totally convinced of. I'm glad you typed this Bernie. It would have taken me an hour or more. The evidence of a young earth is strong. And the science used to date the millions of years is not true science. There are alot of unexplained things in the fossil record we cannot understand. And science cant explain without observation. Well typed . Everyone should make a trip to the creation museum. My first trip I thought it was going to be a wast of money. When I left I thought it was money well spent and would gladly pay more than double.
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Re: Christians - Gap Theory?
[Re: Providence Farm]
#8149693
06/04/24 01:46 PM
06/04/24 01:46 PM
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 855
Georgia
sportsman94
OP
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OP
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Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 855
Georgia
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Oh no! I think Swamp Wolf I may be on the same page. I love it when people get on the 24 hr day thing in creation and the sun wasn't created til the 4th day.
Another thing I can't get the concept of is dinosaurs on the ark. It's two of each kind. Example dog kind would be a single pair not a pair of wolf's, coyote, husky, ECT. Just a single pair. Also each. Pair would have been young ones. Ie Small and have the longest reproductive life remaining. Check out the creation museum in KY not far from Cincinnati. The arc is in Williamsburg KY If I remember right it's interesting as well .. For me the Bible says it and I believe it. All the carbon dating stuff is a joke. There is not enough carbon left to date after about 2500 years. Again aging rocks due to the layers. Sure sounds reasonable. Yet when mount st helen erupted it created a bunch of layers to be created fast and a known exact date they started. Funny thing 25 years later some samples were sent off for dating and cam back millions of years old. This is laid out well at the creation museum. I am a fellow believer that the Bible is 100% true. My problem comes when I see things that are backed scripturally and lend more creedance to what else I accept as probably world views. I am guessing by your response that you are a believer in a young earth? I have gone back and forth on whether I believe the earth is young or not. Im leaning pretty strongly towards the gap theory at this point, but not entirely sold either way. Luckily, my faith doesnt hinge on any of it. I just find it fun to contemplate. I use these sort of things as a puzzle piece and see where else it does or doesnt fit.
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Re: Christians - Gap Theory?
[Re: beaverpeeler]
#8149699
06/04/24 01:59 PM
06/04/24 01:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,017
Missouri, USA
Pofarmer10
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trapper
Joined: Nov 2017
Posts: 1,017
Missouri, USA
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The whole Adam and Eve thing is taken far too literally in my opinion. As are many old testament stories. What do you mean by that?
“If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough.” Mario Andretti
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Re: Christians - Gap Theory?
[Re: sportsman94]
#8149715
06/04/24 02:22 PM
06/04/24 02:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,520
Alaska and Washington State
waggler
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,520
Alaska and Washington State
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When making my positions known on the subject I can get a little short with folks; especially fellow believers. There are much more important subjects Christians and the church should be focusing on; like the good news of Jesus Christ.
I really bristle up when I see people like Kenneth Ham and the late Henry Morris capitalize on the subject for their financial gain.
There really wasn't a debate on the subject until those two in particular guys made it one; and no, the age of the earth debate has nothing to do with God creating life, and the evolutionist idea that life sprang from nothing.
In addition to operating from an economic incentive, I think that Ham and Morris are operating from a position of weak faith.
Morris actually thinks that if the earth is extremely old then evolution might be able to take place. This thought threatens his beliefs, so in response to that fear he has to come up with a young earth explanation. This is not a scientific process, and like I just said, it exposes his fear.
I will cite from Morris's book; Scientific Creationism, pg. 228 paragraph 5.
"The geological ages obviously provide the necessary framework of the time for evolution. If the universe began only several thousand years ago, then evolution is impossible".
When Morris refers to "the geological ages" he's referring to those long periods of geological time (millions/billions of years) that geologist refer to.
I don't believe that life can spring from non-life even if the earth were trillions of years old. Morris believes otherwise.
I went to a Kenneth Ham seminar many years ago. In the lobby of the venue was a huge supply of books and curriculum being marketed to home schoolers and other educators.
After the seminar I asked Ham; "If you were to discover or be convinced that your position that the earth is NOT as extremely young as you say it is, would you recall all of your educational material, or at least issue an update expressing your new position".
He would not answer the question.
For him at least, I think it's about the money, and his pride.
"My life is better than your vacation"
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Re: Christians - Gap Theory?
[Re: Providence Farm]
#8149743
06/04/24 02:57 PM
06/04/24 02:57 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 4,073
Southern Illinois
Foxpaw
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trapper
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 4,073
Southern Illinois
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Oh no! I think Swamp Wolf I may be on the same page. I love it when people get on the 24 hr day thing in creation and the sun wasn't created til the 4th day.
Another thing I can't get the concept of is dinosaurs on the ark. It's two of each kind. Example dog kind would be a single pair not a pair of wolf's, coyote, husky, ECT. Just a single pair. Also each. Pair would have been young ones. Ie Small and have the longest reproductive life remaining. Check out the creation museum in KY not far from Cincinnati. The arc is in Williamsburg KY If I remember right it's interesting as well .. For me the Bible says it and I believe it. All the carbon dating stuff is a joke. There is not enough carbon left to date after about 2500 years. Again aging rocks due to the layers. Sure sounds reasonable. Yet when mount st helen erupted it created a bunch of layers to be created fast and a known exact date they started. Funny thing 25 years later some samples were sent off for dating and cam back millions of years old. This is laid out well at the creation museum. Actually the museum in KY was what I was referring to. Some from church went there and I was farming and didn't go nor would I have went anyway, to see a man made prop. I went to Dinosaur, Colorado and saw the real thing in 1977. I guess if God made it to just fool me he did a good job. I would think if dinosaurs had made it off the ark then Nimrod being the mighty hunter he was he would have been in pursuit of one, would have made a great story. Even in the Mesopotamian mythology of Gilgamesh I would think a Dinosaur would have been a more beastly pet for Ishtar to have sicked on Enkidu. She was a Goddess and could have had one but instead chose old Taurus, maybe the dinosaur wasn't available that day. I mean if the mythology was make believe I think they would made it using something they knew about and they must have not known about the dinosaurs and if they had known they would have been the talk of the day because they would have surely whopped those behemoths. Now Dragon Heart that's a creature that made a good story. To prove your point by using a man made museum leaves me wanting!
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Re: Christians - Gap Theory?
[Re: BernieB.]
#8149865
06/04/24 06:19 PM
06/04/24 06:19 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,520
Alaska and Washington State
waggler
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trapper
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 9,520
Alaska and Washington State
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I think it's important to remember that God exists outside of time and space. Time and space are human concepts.
If you really want millions of years, you could put them between creation and the fall of man. You'll get no argument from the Bible on that one.
Those two concepts should keep you pondering this for a while. Exactly, plus there could be all sorts of other possibilities and combinations. It is sort of fun to ponder, thankfully, it doesn't really matter.
"My life is better than your vacation"
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Re: Christians - Gap Theory?
[Re: sportsman94]
#8149868
06/04/24 06:28 PM
06/04/24 06:28 PM
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 4,073
Southern Illinois
Foxpaw
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trapper
Joined: May 2016
Posts: 4,073
Southern Illinois
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Habakkuk ask God a lot questions.
2 1-4
2 I will stand upon my watch, and set me upon the tower, and will watch to see what he will say unto me, and what I shall answer when I am reproved.
2 And the Lord answered me, and said, Write the vision, and make it plain upon tables, that he may run that readeth it.
3 For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.
4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
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Re: Christians - Gap Theory?
[Re: HobbieTrapper]
#8149876
06/04/24 06:35 PM
06/04/24 06:35 PM
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,432
Wy
Giant Sage
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,432
Wy
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I have good news, how old the earth is has no bearing on your salvation. Yes
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Re: Christians - Gap Theory?
[Re: Boco]
#8149885
06/04/24 06:52 PM
06/04/24 06:52 PM
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Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,432
Wy
Giant Sage
trapper
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trapper
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 3,432
Wy
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Some people dont even know that the world is flat. I know, I would explore to find the edge but I'm afraid I'd fall of. 
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