All the investing talk got me thinking and I question if I'm holding to much cash. It's piece of mind yet gets inflated away. But at the same time having it liquid allows the ability to jump in on good deals especially if the economy crashes. But there could be to much.

What's enough. Emergency fund with 3, 6, 9, months or a years worth of expenses?
Other cash held for investment opportunities? My Goal has been a years worth of expenses, but I just started thinking I don't need it all in a cash fund just the ability to turn it into cash if needed fairly easy so maybe just 2 to 3 months in an instant available cash account may be smarter?

With markets a highs it may be wise to wait for a drop if I holding to much in cash. But yes still dollar cost averaging weekly as well.

Often I allow indecision to stop me.from making moves that would more times than not been profitable mostly due to not wanting to see savings levels reduce. To combat that I spend another bank account just to be used for investing in hopes since that's what it's there for I will jump on opportunities when they come up. Have not had it long enough or funded enough to see how that works out . Anyone else do small things to trick themselves. Realistically there is zero difference if the money goes into and out of one account or is broken up between multiple but it seems to work for me so far.


Just rambling though while waiting on things to get moving at work.

What does investing do??? And if it's worth it how do I do it?

Banks shut down and the stock market crashes. No ATM’s have money.
Now how much cash do you think you need?

Cash in the bank or cash on hand?

I suppose it depends on one's lifestyle.

Are you the type to buy and sell? Buy when something you want but not need is a good deal?

In this case I think the green steel cans full of brass, lead and copper will be more valuable than cash and silver I have put back. Currently on Hand 3 months cash, but in this situation it would go much further because probably no bills will hit the mail box either.

Kind of where debt free, big gardens, and knowing how to preserve the harvest truly shines though.

If that happens cash will likely be valueless.

I don't thinks there's any good reasons to have a large amount of cash stashed. A large amount stashed, for a family of 5, would be anything over $12,000.00 to $15,000.00.

Keith

Thought you asked about cash. All the other is an entirely different subject that most of us have already. Well, except silver. Don’t know anyone that’s gonna say oh cool he’s got silver. My brass can get me most anything I need. Cash money will get me the rest.

That won't buy much now days.

Have "cash" available . . . but GOLD & SILVER readily on hand. :-)

What are you gonna do with gold and silver?

Brass and lead will be much better to have on hand.

A couple of years of expenses plus incidental expenses in liquid moneys. The one thing you don't want to do sell stock if things go south. I have 2 to 3 years of expenses in liquid funds where no penalties or have to sell and will be able to weather a storm in a downturn.

History has always come back in ~1.5 years at one of the longest recovery times after a bear market.

HUH???. My G & S will buy more B & L than you will buy G & S . . . DUH!

Is your G&S an investment and part of your portfolio. SJA? Or do you sell G&S and buy and hold?

SJA,
If things go your way....maybe.

But, if things go bad enough that you need to buy ammo with your gold and silver...it'll be too late for you and your's.

I'm gonna use my brass and lead to obtain what I need.

You don't need a whole lot of brass n lead. Realisticly if you ever get into a firefight with the authorities you might get off a 100 rounds, not likely but it's possible. Gold and silver on the other hand will allow you to trade for stuff, like food. And don't tell me you'll grow all your own food. Not gonna happen. Garden's will be all torn up and destroyed.

Gold and silver have been a medium of exchange for thousands of years and will be for thousands more.

Liquidity can come in many forms.

Bryce

Currently, I have 10 years of ammo and 1 year of cash on hand. I have no worries. Oh, and if the world doesn't end, I have 35+ years of investment income, just in case. LOL

10k.

Suppose the sky falls. What then?

We are Americans. We'll pick it back up.

10-15K in hard cash. 3-6 months of expenses in the bank.

Should keep 20 or 30g in fur money just for toys and stuff throughout the year.

Let's see here......48 cents and some pocket lint.

I don't think it's an either/or as far as brass, lead, gold and silver goes. I think it'd be smart to have some of all of that. Diversification. I tend to agree with the person that said you might not can buy much brass or lead with your precious metals or it might be too late to. But, the people that have the things you DO need, probably already have some brass and lead stored up as well. If you or a family member has a bad infection and needs some antibiotics, and the only person you find that has some doesn't need/want whatever ammo or components you have, they might be willing to trade you some for silver. Why limit your options? Keep as least some of both.

Wait until the world settles down a bit, might be a while. Then dump at least 500k and all your coon money (put it up yourself to make more money) in the defence companies, Raytheon, General Dynamics, BASF, Ect. Then sit and wait until the next war. But I’m not a financial advisor and can only retire in ten years because of a good government pension and some wise moves by the wife…..lol

As for hard cash on hand, I’ve got about $300 on me now that’ll be spent tomorrow as I’m going to the FHA warehouse and swinging by Mel Stockings place tomorrow, and about $2000USD for our trip south in a couple weeks……not much really.

Always keep a dime in your pocket, just in case you need to call home !

Cash will be worthless also

I don't see that happening. It's possible, but very very slim chance.

another certified PF "I have more money than I know what to do with" thread...

I think pm's is not a good investment. I toiled for a long time about it and opted out.

LOL

And we keep taking the bait.

I like cds. With inflation, cash always loses. In an emergency, you can liquidate your cd. You pay a penalty, but I think it only taps into the interest you made and not your deposit.

No offense intended but on the internet is the last place I would be advertising how much cash or gold and silver I keep on hand.

I will find a good spot to hide out while the rest of ya'll kill one another...yes, cash, gold and silver is good to have on hand.

I'm going out The Lone Ranger and Scaramanga way . . . HA!! :-))))

Providence you seem to know something about money and especially about hard work. But i'm scratching my head that you are paying interest on ANY loan other than a business loan. If you are hoarding cash buying selling trades but WASTING money on interest . PLUS not only the interest but spending the principal as well. BUT I think differently after being debt free. I SEE how fast money accumulates when payments stop going out each month. Paid off the house and both vehicles in the same year. Simple math in our case that's 24,000 per year not leaving each month.... Middle of year seven no payment. You do the math....

Well only thing I can say about cash to prove TONS of Edward jones wannabe's on here wrong is this. You say cash is stupid because it's not making anything investment wise. "won't keep up with inflation" BLAH BLAH.

Let me share how my "cash" has showed a dividend.
New septic lines 2021 Guy priced it at 4000 TOOK 3,000 CASH (net dividend ) 25% over 15 minutes it took me to get it
New roof 2023 17,000 .Roofer took 16,000 (net dividend 1,000) took me 20 minutes to move furniture to get to that safe. Oh yes might add . Put the insurance check in a CD at 5.13 % Matures end of July...
Last Monday had to tear down part of stone on front of house because builder failed to use brick ties.
Mason wanted 2000 took 1500 cash ( 25% dividend) took 4 minutes to get that
So stop trying to put dividend values on cash you have comparing to "invest invest" with the narrative cash alone can't "make" money.....

Jbyrd. I get what you're saying, but did you make money, or not spend as much?

1-3 months if you can. Have a couple hundred with you at all times.

This has been discussed many times on here. Kind of like beating a dead horse.
Precious metal ownership is an insurance policy for your money that can be held in your hand and traded for other hard assets or sold back at current value. Insurance for the value of money that would be saved and is losing value by the minute as more money is being printed.
It can be an investment also, as it has been going up in value lately.

An investment in precious metal would best be done through owning stock in mining companies, ETF's or royalty companies.
Some people buy realestate, collectables and things that is thought to appreciate and or retain value with time instead of.metals. The value of these things move up and down also. I would guess these people own both. Precious metals have proven themselves against failing currencies for thousands of years.

Green folding money is losing value at a steady rate but is good to have for them good one time deals as mentioned above. ( A dollar saved is a dollar earned )

Lead and brass is also more of an insurance policy rather than an investment. Need some of both or maybe a little of everything mentioned above.

My cash made money by me using it negotiating with the contractor. Banks / companies make money by using your cash thru interest or stock returns. Part is given back to you
Ok I invested my cash in each contractor businesses. My returns were amounts I listed. Did that meet the parameters of an investment? Lol Tomato tomatoe

I agree jbyrd63. Tried to state that by saying " A dollar saved is a dollar earned". I would.say.it would be classified as good business more than investment or insurance.

$420

Buy stamps
They go up every year, sometimes multiple times per year.
https://www.foxbusiness.com/lifestyle/price-postage-stamps-raised-soon-despite-recent-increase

Being frugal/discount shopping is different than investing,,,,

That’s not a negative,,,,they are just different

Edward jones likely wouldn’t hire you

While this debate has gone on as long as the forum has been alive, I'm not going to add anything other than when the time comes to change and liquidate your paper work to cash and bullion, it will be to late to do so, that being said !

How does one go about buying with bullion in gold and silver any way ?

One never hears how or see's any examples of doing so, do carry around a small scale to measure out a payment, how do you protect large amounts of bullion when the world dives off the cliff. One could surely smelt small bars or I guess pellets and weigh them into cute little baggies of cash, LOL, but then you have to stay in one area to do so, unless you have a way to carry smelting equipment around.

Please elaborate on this a bit or direct to a source on the subject

I would also imagine that doing this sort of outlay would invite a large amount of thievery, but settling that would probably be an easy thing for one or two, but what about gangs roaming around.

One other thing I see is that a lot of you are seemingly brave enough to expound on your totals kept at home or easily acquired, do you actually feel comfortable doing this on public forums, with people already moving around trying to access free materials ?

Those automatic checkouts don't have a silver or gold slot yet.

If hollywierd has taught us anything it is what is possible once the zombies and rouge government agents (same thing) come after you. Credit cards go dead. Debit cards go dead. Bank accounts drained. Try to use one and you pop up on the grid and they got you. That is when they turn against you individually, but same thing would happen in a general societal meltdown scenario. Nothing digital is going to work. No food, no fuel, no nothing. Barter or outright theft is the only thing working.

My advice is to have enough non-perishable food for 2 to 4 weeks and at min $1,000 cash on hand and in your home or stashed where you can get at it. And part of that can be held as generic Visa/MC cash cards as a lot of places won't even take cash. Limit size of those cash cards to $100 or so, in case you try to use it and the machine won't give it up. All your eggs not in one basket. Again, all part of a short term survival strategy for when that day comes when the droppings have hit the fan. And that is short term only. Long term, save the last bullet for yourself. Once you get down to the last bullet, you don't want stick around for what follows anyway.

As to the rest of it, there are formulas for how much to save over your lifetime to set yourself up for retirement. I suspect not 1 in 10 are even close to those goals.

You stole my jeans!

All you people who think you have lots of money in stock market investments will be broke at the click of a button.
When SHTF people with useful skills will be fine,people with useless skills will be screwed.

I remember what happened to Canadian truck drivers when they "crossed" the Queen...

I think different than most people here. Have no idea if I'm right...but it's just my opinion. I've worked in finance for 25 years, so there is a base for my opinions.

I've always felt that an "emergency fund" is less than necessary....if you have anything borrowed.[i][/i] Here's the why...

If you have $10,000 in an emergency fund, but have a $20,000 loan sitting out there...odds are quite high that the loan is costing you a higher percent interest than you are earning on your emergency fund. This is costing you money.

The great, great majority of people in the small-town bank that I work with have access to borrow money quickly if needed...this is their "defacto" emergency fund source. It is available yet costing you nothing until you borrow. In fact, you are making money, since you used most of your $10,000 emergency fund to pay down debt...instead of holding the money. Be careful of loans with too high of an origination fee; that limits the viability of this plan.

I've no issue with keeping a few thousand around, but I'm just not a huge fan of holding a bunch liquid.

I also don't mind using credit cards, as long as the balance is paid off monthly. This can be your emergency fund source...in waiting.

Let me know where I'm wrong, folks. I'm approaching 55 years old, but still learning about this stuff everyday.

With the premium when you buy and sell its not a growth investment more of a stable way to hold money against inflation.

And I'm upset because I can only put in 1112 hours a week.

I think you have answered your own question.

The things you hope to achieve are not mutually exclusive IMO. You can maximize them simultaneously. Many brokers pay a reasonable amount of interest on cash balances in a brokerage account. That money is still immediately available for securities purchases or withdrawal if you need it. Some also offer a debit card to use against that cash balance.

A money market account with check writing privileges would also meet most of your requirements and also be available for stock purchases if held at a family such as Vanguard or Fidelity.

I think the key line in your question is .........."the ability to turn it into cash".

I also agree with Husker above. Some reasonable amount of actual cash on hand is not a bad idea but make sure that any borrowed funds are not costing you more than you might be earning ...........unless that interest expense is tax deductible.

You don't need to have the cash stashed to be able to take advantage of someone who wants cash for a job or item to save. Lots of ways to get several K in short order to take advantage of those opportunities.

Bryce

I struggle with how much cash is a good idea to have on hand. $10,000 in a safe is worth less every single morning when you get up than it was the day before. And with this inflation, quite a bit less.

Yet if it's in the bank, it's not earning diddly in interest, and may be inaccessible when you need it the most.

Think I will go back to being a poor trapper and having to sell furs as I get them to pay the electric bill and rent. Life seemed a lot simpler back then.

The best thing you can do with money is to spend it,If you dont some gurrier down the road will when you tip over.
Other than that it is just arsewipe.

Here’s my thing with cash…you ever need it right then and you have it. AC goes out, got it. Poor soul going through a divorce and selling his gun collection for what one gun would cost…got it. Truck takes a dump…got that too. Cash on hand just lets me live a little more stress free.

After seeing my 401K turn into a 201K twice and losing a job as a tool and die maker that once had two columns of ads in the paper when they still had want ads, and not getting a job for 9 months back in 2009 my idea of emergency fund changed. Without more specifics I started to ladder one year CDs into IRAs, let me get a tax write-off and when I turned 59 could get them out without a penalty, never needed one early. Retired at 62 and lived off of them for 3 years till taking social security, no tax owed on them because little income for 3 years. If the shtf scenario takes place spend all your cash on hand ASAP as it will be worthless quick. I am talking gasoline in cans you can buy, chainsaws, guns, ammo, food, liquor, anything you can trade.

I have enough cash for about 3 years.

As far as gold and silver, or even cash if things really go south my thoughts are are different.

If you have gold, silver and cash you will be a target. No matter how much ammo you have once the word gets out they will keep on coming.

Best to have ammo for food and emergencies and forget the other.

I have a savings account through Morgan Stanley (who bought out Etrade), that pays 4.5% APY. I can transfer money from it to my home bank (which can take up to 3 days), or to my brokerage account instantly if I wish to purchase securities. I figure if I need instant cash, I can use my credit card, then transfer the money from the Morgan Stanley account to my home bank to pay off the credit card before it comes due.

I hate to assume, but I'm thinking it's an issue of protection in a bad economy like in 2009, not a shtf scenario.

How safe was gold in 1933 when the gov confiscated it or was that a reimbursement for a little over $20 then set a value of like $32 on it so that was a good chunk of change profit for the gov ?

Why would the gov need Fort Knox when they can just let the people hold it for them at no charge and when they need it just call it in? Nah, the gov wouldn't do that would they? One could still have gold just don't get caught using it. Is that thinking even realistic today ?

If SHTF CASH Won't even be fit TP

This^^^^

And once folks find out you have gold and silver....you better have plenty of brass and lead.

If "Greybacks" was good enough for Granny Clampett , then they are good enough for me , lol.

Yes....this thinking is realistic....^^^^^

Remember what Greece did when their economy failed?

I swear y'all would argue about what color the sky is, lol.

I have 3 dollars in my wallet.

What percentage of the population do you think turned in their gold? They didn't confiscate jewelry. Buy 28 k scrap jewelry if your worried about it.

SW, please tell, how much lead and brass is enough?

Depends on how many people try to take your gold and silver...and how well you can defend it.

Maybe gold teeth would be the way to go, lol,

Some of you guys....

If for whatever reason you have something I want, I only need one bullet at extended range , then I can walk in and take what I want, all your lead and brass was useless.

Anybody got change for a $100

Pair of visegrips will take care of that.

28k scrap gold? Sounds like good stuff.

Nice deflection SW. How much is enough? 1000 rounds? 2 thousand 5? 10?

They will try and take everything in a societal breakdown. If that is what one is preparing for it's a given one needs defensive capabilities.

You bring up Greece. People in Greece with precious metals faired better than those with euros.

Lol. For sure.

For the rest of the gallery, it's a typo. 18k gold.

Or 20 and 24 k bracelets or chain. They are out there

Now you're just bragging.

If you are not part of a clan or tribe you will be screwed regardless.

BOCO is right. If it truly is a SHTF scenario there is safety in numbers.

We watch Hardcore Pawn reruns and people bring stuff of Grandmas in all the time that they think is gold and Les says nope. I guess if its pretty and shiny don't make it gold ?

I have the full series of "Walking Dead" Guess I need to freshen up.

Stash all you want,,,,but have a plan if something goes down.
Cash and food are the first thing I will plunder , while looking for the "book of Eli".......

If you come to my place , take what ever you want. But please wear shoes and socks !

Exactly, the community around you will play an integral part

Odds are you won’t be dealing with a SHTF problem. Rounds won’t matter if you don’t have things ready for your personal apocalypse (loosing your job, natural disasters, ect..) Cash is always a good thing to have. Same as all the other things folks overlook. Like how is your personal fitness, do you have enough hygiene products, how much clean water do you have, if you take prescription drugs do you have enough to last a few days or months. On and on…. The 5.56 guys are a broken record

Desperate times will call for desperate measures. Until I take a bullet, my family and I will eat. And I won't buy it with gold or silver.

I can't find where I read it, but Greece took 20% of what it's citizens had in banks....stemming when their gov financial crisis began in 2008. Citizens had no say in it.

Plenty of Japanese soldiers held out for along time solo/2-3’s when the SHTF for them,,,

Hiroo Onoda held out and fought for 29 YEARS AFTER the War had ended and was discovered in 1974!

They didnt hold out-they were lost,lol.Wasnt a choice.

No, he wasn't lost. You would have to understand "Asian" Honor and Discipline principles.

No I dont have to understand any wacky asian BS.
The Japs in ww2 were the most dishonorable bunch of thugs on the face of the earth worse than the NAZIs.
You otta know that after how they treated your(and our) POW's.

I wasn't referring to their cruelty or other sadistic issues. It was their MENTAL disciplines. Did you, or have any family members in EITHER theater of war WWII ??? . . . if not, STFU.

Yes I did had an uncle wounded at D-Day so now you can saddle up and --
And you can take your jap worship and shove it.

Jap worship?? You're a jerk. End of our conversation. . . have a good evening.

I invested in traps,guns and dogs the rest I just wasted--- Iam old enough now to not worry about tomorrow, pretty soon it's yesterday!

I bought ice cream !!! So far with this heat it has been a great investment. It’s better than gold. Never seen people chase a brinks truck but I’ve had hundreds chasing me waving money !

"Note To Self" , Mr. jbyrd has a safe behind some furniture. Also leaves garage door open some nights with no security camera facing house. Plus leaves his purse in wife's car along with firearm in console. Will be gone at 8am to meet with deputy. Time to cash in!

Whats the address?

Got it Boco,,,,,,Gogle is amazing,,,,,
Beware of the "Walkers".......

Kentucky. Sorry Boco, the gold is all mine!

Becoming self sufficient as possible, and having barter items on hand is a good move....Not sure any type of currency will trump bartering for needed everyday goods.