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Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8204080
08/27/24 06:47 AM
08/27/24 06:47 AM
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Wisconsin
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Mad Scientist Offline OP
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Every panel in my house and any panel I’ve ever seen has the ground and neutral on the same bar the only bar in the breaker box- am I missing something? Everything was done by an electrician and inspected by the city.

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8204082
08/27/24 06:49 AM
08/27/24 06:49 AM
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Lugnut Offline
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Yes, you are missing something. Sub-panels need a separate ground bar and rod. Grounds and neutrals are not to be shared in sub-panels.


Eh...wot?

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8204087
08/27/24 07:02 AM
08/27/24 07:02 AM
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Posts: 2,688
Manitoba
Shakeyjake Offline
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The only time a sub (a separate panel past the main panel) can have the neut & bond on the same buss is if the sub has its own disconnect and a rod or ground plate is used. But most electricians remove the bond screw (keeping the neutral & bond separate) and utilize a bonding conductor feeding the sub. That way they don’t have to pound a rod or plate. Our old city inspectors in Winnipeg weren’t tradesmen, lots of poor wiring passed and a real electrician would be back to repair. In Winnipeg, the city would inspect and we just connected…..but that’s changed now. You need a licensed electrician as an inspector…..think it’d be common sense no?….lol
I can inspect residential but I’m no electrician, just a lineman with a 2 month inspection course. They’re turning us into the jack of all trades now, better bang for the buck.


Wind Blew, crap flew, out came the line crew
Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8204126
08/27/24 08:31 AM
08/27/24 08:31 AM
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NV
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2bit Offline
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All detached structures need their own ground rod or ufer. Every detached structure must have its own disconnect. Every jurisdiction in America follows the National electric code.

If your grounds and neutrals are on the same bus in a sub panel that is not good. May not be the source of the problem but it will need to be fixed in order to find the problem ( if your ele service is the source of the leak)

If you have a bad neutral ( poor connection/ broken wire) somewhere the residual power will try to find it's way to ground ( your ground rod) this is not good, and why neutrals and grounds must be isolated until they reach the main panel.

The purpose of the grounding system is to give electricity a place to go in the event of a short circuit. For example a hot wire pulls loose in a metal conduit and contacts the metal conduit. If that metal conduit is not grounded the breaker will not trip, when you touch the metal conduit and something that is grounded, bad things happen.

A broken neutral is not a short circuit until it contacts a grounded object. Since your neutrals and grounds are mixed together, the system isn't working properly. If a neutral is broken or not connected, electricity should not be able to find an alternate route to ground.

I went to a service call to fix a 120v receptacle. The wire feeding the receptacle had been overheated causing the wires to become brittle. They had broken off so many times the neutral was too short so someone decided to use the ground wire as the neutral. The ground wire was 18 gauge green insulated and the white and black were 14g. Old stuff I've seen this type of wire before, always on houses from the 40's. The lady had multiple splitters and a goobly gob of stuff plugged in. A miracle that house hadn't burned

Last edited by 2bit; 08/27/24 08:50 AM.
Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Drifter] #8204142
08/27/24 09:00 AM
08/27/24 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Drifter
No idea if is a frog story or fact. When running line for my LP tank had to make a cut out for the main line through the concrete or they wouldn't hook it up. Said concrete would eat through the copper line.


I know a gas line cannot run under concrete. I assumed it was settling can break the line.

I was cutting a slot through a concrete pad and my blade started sparking a lot. I stopped and inspected the cut. There was a half inch black gas line buried in the concrete. Glad I didn't make it all the way through the wall of that pipe. Of course I corrected the issue.

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8204158
08/27/24 09:37 AM
08/27/24 09:37 AM
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Wisconsin
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So I called Xcel Energy and apparently the 140,000 people without power from a storm are more important than my pool.I really appreciate everyone posting on here and 100 percent read and absorb what your saying.I did figure out how to measure voltage at pool and it is at 2.0 volts.

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8204160
08/27/24 09:39 AM
08/27/24 09:39 AM
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WV
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Originally Posted by Mad Scientist
Every panel in my house and any panel I’ve ever seen has the ground and neutral on the same bar the only bar in the breaker box- am I missing something? Everything was done by an electrician and inspected by the city.


If it was installed and inspected prior to 2008 then it is possible they are on the same bar. I believe the 2008 NEC was the first edition the the code book (This was a discussion point this morning in our pre shift at work amongst some older NEC guys) that called out separating the neutral and grounds in a sub panel. Prior to that it was just considered good practice to keep them separate.

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8204184
08/27/24 10:29 AM
08/27/24 10:29 AM
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Wisconsin
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OK now that I looked everything over my main box and garage box are the only ones that have the neutral and ground connected.

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8204270
08/27/24 01:05 PM
08/27/24 01:05 PM
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Wisconsin
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Xcel Energy is here and they have a problem on there end.Prayers answered!

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8204290
08/27/24 02:09 PM
08/27/24 02:09 PM
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I bet that's a relief!


Eh...wot?

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8204332
08/27/24 03:47 PM
08/27/24 03:47 PM
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Wisconsin
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Had a bad leg underground so they left me this apparatus that is supposed to sort things out.They figured the wire had a Nick in it with the hot weather the heavy amperage draw eats them up fast.They were not sure when someone would come and finish the job.

image.jpg
Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8204421
08/27/24 06:20 PM
08/27/24 06:20 PM
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Posts: 4,130
Ohio
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Ohio
Current is like water. Least path of resistance. Glad they found the issue.!!!

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: stinkypete] #8204444
08/27/24 06:33 PM
08/27/24 06:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
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NWWA/AZ
Vinke Offline
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Originally Posted by stinkypete
Current is like water. Least path of resistance. Glad they found the issue.!!!


And I was right........


Ant Man/ Marty 2028
Vinke/ Coonman for press Secretary��..

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8204448
08/27/24 06:36 PM
08/27/24 06:36 PM
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Iowa
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Iowa
Originally Posted by Mad Scientist
Had a bad leg underground so they left me this apparatus that is supposed to sort things out.They figured the wire had a Nick in it with the hot weather the heavy amperage draw eats them up fast.They were not sure when someone would come and finish the job.


Did they say what this "apparatus" does? Bet the underground leg is aluminum and the plastic jacket was nicked and caused the conductor to breakdown.

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: slue-foot] #8204473
08/27/24 06:53 PM
08/27/24 06:53 PM
Joined: Dec 2006
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NWWA/AZ
Vinke Offline
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Originally Posted by slue-foot
Originally Posted by Mad Scientist
Had a bad leg underground so they left me this apparatus that is supposed to sort things out.They figured the wire had a Nick in it with the hot weather the heavy amperage draw eats them up fast.They were not sure when someone would come and finish the job.


Did they say what this "apparatus" does? Bet the underground leg is aluminum and the plastic jacket was nicked and caused the conductor to breakdown.


Dude,,,, you need to watch star trac,,,,,,,,It is a negative rebound positive generator for the extraction of wave mass.


Ant Man/ Marty 2028
Vinke/ Coonman for press Secretary��..

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8204477
08/27/24 06:56 PM
08/27/24 06:56 PM
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Posts: 4,137
North central Iowa
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Glad the found it.

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: slue-foot] #8204483
08/27/24 07:01 PM
08/27/24 07:01 PM
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Wisconsin
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Originally Posted by slue-foot
Originally Posted by Mad Scientist
Had a bad leg underground so they left me this apparatus that is supposed to sort things out.They figured the wire had a Nick in it with the hot weather the heavy amperage draw eats them up fast.They were not sure when someone would come and finish the job.


Did they say what this "apparatus" does? Bet the underground leg is aluminum and the plastic jacket was nicked and caused the conductor to breakdown.

I think it split a 120 lead into 2 120 leads-maybe one of the guys here knows what it’s called.And you would win that bet.

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8204491
08/27/24 07:07 PM
08/27/24 07:07 PM
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North central Iowa
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They unhooked the one lead so you would only have 120/110, but they’re just pulling off of 1 leg to make 220 they bring in one and out with two.

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8204651
08/27/24 09:40 PM
08/27/24 09:40 PM
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Posts: 717
NV
2
2bit Offline
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NV

[/quote]
I think it split a 120 lead into 2 120 leads-maybe one of the guys here knows what it’s called.And you would win that bet.[/quote]

Phase generator. Restore rite calls it a temporary power restoration device.

Last edited by 2bit; 08/27/24 09:50 PM.
Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8204655
08/27/24 09:42 PM
08/27/24 09:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 717
NV
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2bit Offline
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NV
It uses one leg and bumps it up to 240v then splits it into 2 phases. It's a very heavy magic box

Glad the problem was solved, and nothing had to come out of your pocket

Last edited by 2bit; 08/27/24 09:43 PM.
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