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Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8203829
08/26/24 07:10 PM
08/26/24 07:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 738
Lakes Region Indiana
L
loosanarrow Offline
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loosanarrow  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 738
Lakes Region Indiana
I agree with shakeyjake. I have decades of experience as residential and light industrial electrician. If the utility doesnt figure it out, they will tell you to call a pro electrician. Shakey knows what he is talking about. And that is what you should do.
Even with lots of experience, there a few obvious things I would check but beyond that I need the company van with the special equipment to go any further.

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8203833
08/26/24 07:12 PM
08/26/24 07:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 606
WV
G
garymc Offline
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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 606
WV
Make sure that in the sub panel of your garage that the neutral and ground buss’ are not connected together (grounds and neutrals should be separated in the sub panel) The Neutral and grounds should only be connected at the first service disconnect which is the main panel at your house where your service enters. The Neutral provides the return path back to your main panel. IF neutral and ground are connected together in sub panels it allows the return path to be divided between Neutral and ground which is a shock hazard, in effective breaker operation, and can cause noise interference issues (your frig/radio in garage).

Last edited by garymc; 08/26/24 07:13 PM.
Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8203849
08/26/24 07:29 PM
08/26/24 07:29 PM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 226
NE Iowa
D
dogdown Offline
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dogdown  Offline
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 226
NE Iowa
Get a qualified electrician. Stay clear until they have corrected the problem. This can and has been many times a deadly situation.

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8203852
08/26/24 07:38 PM
08/26/24 07:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,946
Wisconsin
M
Mad Scientist Offline OP
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Mad Scientist  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,946
Wisconsin
Thanks guys I have an electrician coming Friday and will call Xcel Energy again in the morning as they weren’t very helpful tonight.

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8203853
08/26/24 07:44 PM
08/26/24 07:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 2,688
Manitoba
Shakeyjake Offline
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Shakeyjake  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 2,688
Manitoba
Call them right now, there’s a guy sitting at home on call waiting for his phone to ring. He gave up his week to be able to respond. I hate it when a call comes in on straight time when the problem started the night before. Customer didn’t realize it was free or says “I didn’t want to bother anyone after hours”.….lol
[Linked Image]

Last edited by Shakeyjake; 08/26/24 07:44 PM.

Wind Blew, crap flew, out came the line crew
Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8203856
08/26/24 07:47 PM
08/26/24 07:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 4,137
North central Iowa
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Bob_Iowa Offline
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Bob_Iowa  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 4,137
North central Iowa
Jake you sound just like the linemen here just waiting for that time and a half. grin

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8203858
08/26/24 07:48 PM
08/26/24 07:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,946
Wisconsin
M
Mad Scientist Offline OP
trapper
Mad Scientist  Offline OP
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M

Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,946
Wisconsin
I called and talked to someone and they sent me to building and they were closed so unless you have a hot downed wire or a gas leak they don’t have any number to call.

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Bob_Iowa] #8203861
08/26/24 07:53 PM
08/26/24 07:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 2,688
Manitoba
Shakeyjake Offline
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Shakeyjake  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 2,688
Manitoba
Originally Posted by Bob_Iowa
Jake you sound just like the linemen here just waiting for that time and a half. grin

Time and a half? Nope, Double bubble man! That’s what pays for my gear…lol


Wind Blew, crap flew, out came the line crew
Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8203862
08/26/24 07:54 PM
08/26/24 07:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 4,137
North central Iowa
B
Bob_Iowa Offline
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Bob_Iowa  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2019
Posts: 4,137
North central Iowa
Ha.

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8203865
08/26/24 07:54 PM
08/26/24 07:54 PM
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 717
NV
2
2bit Offline
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2bit  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 717
NV
I know quite a bit of everything related to the trades. Call an electrician. Dont be penny wise. This is a very dangerous situation

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8203872
08/26/24 08:00 PM
08/26/24 08:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 2,688
Manitoba
Shakeyjake Offline
trapper
Shakeyjake  Offline
trapper

Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 2,688
Manitoba
They should send a guy out if you leave a description, or call the number. Tell them an electrician was here already and says it on their side. We get calls for “flickering” lights when it’s just the cheap LEDs, tree on line or a line down that winds up to be a communication line etc. We have to send someone to check just in case it is on a HV line, not good for PR if a kid tries to push it off…haha.


Wind Blew, crap flew, out came the line crew
Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8203874
08/26/24 08:00 PM
08/26/24 08:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 717
NV
2
2bit Offline
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2bit  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 717
NV
Like I said. You need a pro and it's money well spent, but I suspect the issue lies with whatever electrical passes by the pool or supplies the pool with electrical equipment. You have a pump house I assume. It's going to be whatever electrical was installed when you installed your pool

Could be a light in the pool, the pump ( most likely). My guess it's a piece of equipment that has water plumbed through it

Last edited by 2bit; 08/26/24 08:07 PM.
Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8203881
08/26/24 08:06 PM
08/26/24 08:06 PM
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 717
NV
2
2bit Offline
trapper
2bit  Offline
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2

Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 717
NV
If you can get the electrician out that did the work on your pool, he will probably have an idea what the issue is, if he hasn't retired already.

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Shakeyjake] #8203890
08/26/24 08:18 PM
08/26/24 08:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 642
ontario, canada
O
old243 Offline
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old243  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2019
Posts: 642
ontario, canada
This is the same condition, that crops up on farms. usually referred to as tingle voltage. The cattle will refuse to drink , from a heated water bowl, or get shocks from metal stabling. I went to a complaint of a water bowl giving shocks. Examined all the connections and grounding. In all the panels in all the barns, house . The flow would vary from time to time. Hydro crew came in and did the same , checks . They later found an open neutral connection at a pole 2 miles away. after closing the connection . The problem was eliminated. Power will return to the source , by the best path. Can be returning , through the neutral. or through the grounding system , the earth to another better source. maybe a neibouring farm or dwelling. I spent 36 years as an electrician and a hydro lineman,in a utility, in my former life. You run into a lot of weird problems .

Have your electrician , go over all your panels, and all ground rod connections. If you don't find it at your place, Your utility may find it in the neibourhood. Good luck, finding the problem, may be frustrating. old243

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: HayDay] #8203892
08/26/24 08:20 PM
08/26/24 08:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 717
NV
2
2bit Offline
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2bit  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2023
Posts: 717
NV
Originally Posted by HayDay
Sounds like a similar condition where people get shocked and die while swimming around boat docks. Have tried to do the research as to what the fault is in the wiring that would cause that and got nowhere fast. All they say is stay out of the water around boat docks. And hire qualified electrician to wire them.

When we wired the sub panel in the barn across the road, local inspectors and utility guys were adamant we were not to bond the neutral to ground in the barn or bond panel to a ground in the barn. Only connection to outside world to and from the barn was thru the 4 buried wires. Two hots, a neutral and ground ran from meter, thru a circuit breaker to the barn. Outlet circuit out there is now on GFI breaker too. Never did get a good technical explanation as to the why of all of it. Something about alternative pathways of a short back to the source. Worst part of it was came away thinking inspector didn't know anymore about it than I did. Was just repeating what somebody told him.



He is correct when he says to keep the ground wire and the neutral separated until they reach the main panel. The reason is it is potentially dangerous to the technician working on the equipment.

When I disconnect a bonding wire from a panel, the assumption is that bonding wire is now isolated from the electrical system. That assumption will kill me if there is a short circuit that has found a path to to this bonding wire that should be isolated. And this is why I turn the power off at the main panel, no matter what, every time. Hackers are dangerous and I don't know who wired the house I'm working on, or who touched it after.

The same principal applies to circuits that share a neutral. The breakers need to be joined so that all circuits using the neutral shut off together. Usually a duplex breaker with a bar joining the two switches. This is a very common mistake in wiring and I see it on new construction regularly.

Say you shut off a circuit. Your meter says no power. You think it's safe. Then you take the wire nut off the neutrals and see a spark, or you are unfortunate enough to be caught between the feeder and the home run. You just got electrocuted. That is because residual power is coming back to the panel on the neutral. A circuit is using that neutral, but it's not the circuit you checked.

Last edited by 2bit; 08/26/24 11:03 PM.
Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8204010
08/27/24 01:41 AM
08/27/24 01:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 12,177
Oakland, MS
Drifter Offline
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Posts: 12,177
Oakland, MS
No idea if is a frog story or fact. When running line for my LP tank had to make a cut out for the main line through the concrete or they wouldn't hook it up. Said concrete would eat through the copper line.


Some individuals use statistics as a drunk man uses lamp-posts — for support rather than for illumination.

Andrew Lang (1844-1912) Scottish poet, novelist and literary critic









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Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8204012
08/27/24 02:03 AM
08/27/24 02:03 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,695
NWWA/AZ
Vinke Offline
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Vinke  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 11,695
NWWA/AZ
Sparkys.......
The Doctors of construction........................................................


Ant Man/ Marty 2028
Vinke/ Coonman for press Secretary��..

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8204058
08/27/24 06:00 AM
08/27/24 06:00 AM
Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 6,656
Kansas
Pawnee Online content
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Pawnee  Online Content
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Joined: Dec 2017
Posts: 6,656
Kansas
Bad neutral


Everything the left touches it destroys
Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: garymc] #8204069
08/27/24 06:25 AM
08/27/24 06:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,946
Wisconsin
M
Mad Scientist Offline OP
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Mad Scientist  Offline OP
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Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 1,946
Wisconsin
Originally Posted by garymc
Make sure that in the sub panel of your garage that the neutral and ground buss’ are not connected together (grounds and neutrals should be separated in the sub panel) The Neutral and grounds should only be connected at the first service disconnect which is the main panel at your house where your service enters. The Neutral provides the return path back to your main panel. IF neutral and ground are connected together in sub panels it allows the return path to be divided between Neutral and ground which is a shock hazard, in effective breaker operation, and can cause noise interference issues (your frig/radio in garage).


There is only one bar in sub panel to connect ground and neutral wires but they are not connected to the same screw if that’s what you’re asking.

Re: Swimming pool electrical? [Re: Mad Scientist] #8204073
08/27/24 06:35 AM
08/27/24 06:35 AM
Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 2,688
Manitoba
Shakeyjake Offline
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Shakeyjake  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2022
Posts: 2,688
Manitoba
That opens up a can of worms…lol. You said SUB panel, not the one right before the meter? Does the panel have its own ground plate/rod. If not, the bond screw/strap needs to be removed from the buss that they’re connected at.

Last edited by Shakeyjake; 08/27/24 06:36 AM.

Wind Blew, crap flew, out came the line crew
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